|
|
#131
07-31-2005, 01:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
Are there actually people on this forum who want their opponents calling a 10$ bet in a 100$ pot with a flush draw, with one card to come, assuming the action is final and you have a made hand? [/ QUOTE ] No. We are just saying it is +EV. That doesn't mean that you want it to happen. Because there is an alternative that is even more +EV. Your goal is to maximize your EV not merely find a situation that happens to have an EV of higher than 0. A lot of people on this thread (including you) don't seem to get this and this possibly the most basic aspect of poker theory. [ QUOTE ] people, if its a headsup pot, and its +EV for him (getting 11-1 on a nut flush draw is very +EV), it is -EV for you. This is a zero sum game, how can anyone not see that? [/ QUOTE ] It is not zero sum on the turn because there is dead money in the pot. If you are heads up and there is $100 in there to fight over, then your EV plus your opponent's EV will equal $100, the amount of dead money. If your EV's summed to zero as you say, then where would the "dead" $100 go? Seriously, people who can't see that the sum of the expectations of the players in the pot will equal the pot size need to reread Theory of Poker. At the time the turn is dealt, you must think of the money in the pot as "dead". It doesn't matter whether it was contributed by you or whether magicial fairies dropped $100 on the table; at this point it is not your money and is out there to be fought over. 
|
|
#132
07-31-2005, 03:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Are there actually people on this forum who want their opponents calling a 10$ bet in a 100$ pot with a flush draw, with one card to come, assuming the action is final and you have a made hand? [/ QUOTE ] No. We are just saying it is +EV. That doesn't mean that you want it to happen. Because there is an alternative that is even more +EV. Your goal is to maximize your EV not merely find a situation that happens to have an EV of higher than 0. A lot of people on this thread (including you) don't seem to get this and this possibly the most basic aspect of poker theory. [ QUOTE ] people, if its a headsup pot, and its +EV for him (getting 11-1 on a nut flush draw is very +EV), it is -EV for you. This is a zero sum game, how can anyone not see that? [/ QUOTE ] It is not zero sum on the turn because there is dead money in the pot. If you are heads up and there is $100 in there to fight over, then your EV plus your opponent's EV will equal $100, the amount of dead money. If your EV's summed to zero as you say, then where would the "dead" $100 go? Seriously, people who can't see that the sum of the expectations of the players in the pot will equal the pot size need to reread Theory of Poker. At the time the turn is dealt, you must think of the money in the pot as "dead". It doesn't matter whether it was contributed by you or whether magicial fairies dropped $100 on the table; at this point it is not your money and is out there to be fought over. [/ QUOTE ] there were posters who wanted a call the first one is good they claim they can protect there hand but if theyre the favorite why would they want to protect their hand[ QUOTE ] I can protect my hand. Its no big deal. Take the time to learn how to do it, you might see a difference. And why the hell do you want to push ppl off draws that come in 35 percent of the time (from the flop??) if you are a 65-70 percent favorite? You're making money on every bet that goes in. [/ QUOTE ][ QUOTE ] Why wouldn't you want someone to pay you off with a drawing hand with your made hand. If someone is drawing to their flush he has a 35% chance of hitting it, that means 65% of the time you win. This is especially nice when the drawer isn't getting the odds to call. So for every 3 times I'm against someone drawing to the flush, they pay me off twice to me paying them off once. Thats +EV bro. [/ QUOTE ] for the +/-EV can you guys not both be right? if there are 2 options one gives you +100 and the other +96 than if you calculate ev compared to the alternative one is +4 and the other -4
|
|
#133
07-31-2005, 05:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
I have been in your position for 2 years and grinding it out in the NL tables 0.5/1 up to 3/6 (and a few shots at 5/10). I play anywhere from 1 to 4 tables but in the end i really got bored with NL so i decided to try the 6 max limit tables.. Well after playing limit for a few months i can honestly say that fixed limit totally owns/rules! More decisions and interesting strategy, reads are still important and i also like the offline review with my pokertracker stats. To conclude i have found limit (6max, full ring seems like watching paint dry) far much more fun even though it's been, and will continue to be, hard to stand the swings and frequent suckouts. Regards Snow [/ QUOTE ] I completely agree, saying that NL is boring is odd, especially ten handed. You have to play tight, which is inherently boring. Six handed limit you get to be in all kinds of hands, much more often, and of course you can play high.
|
|
#134
07-31-2005, 05:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
The point was to show how his thought process and reads allowed him to make a risky / creative play. Obviously a ton had to go right in this hand. The level of thinking is great though. Cero is also one of the best mid/high level posters in the NL forums so that was part of the reason for thinking he was a "poker god". Also having the balls to make a play like that often seperates a great limit player from a great NL player. [/ QUOTE ] touche... ...i'll give it to cero, I don't have the balls to continue on a hand like that. My NL philosophy, as bad as a lot of people think it is, is: "Theres always another hand!" I know this drastically hurts my BB/100, but it also saves me from losing a lot of change. Though my thought process lies on similar lines as cero, i simply lack the balls to continue on a hand like that...hopefully in the future I can get away from my nut-peddling nature [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
|
|
#135
07-31-2005, 07:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
Limit:
+ It is easier to become proficient due to numerous good books on the subject + It is easier to increase your wage/hr because multitabling is fairly easier + It is easier to play longer sessions (at least for me) because you don't have many super stress moments. It's easier to not be results oriented. + Easier to find propping jobs (Not really important overall) - Your edge isn't as great as an equivalent NL player against a random fish - Deviation is higher - There are many, many more good limit opponents than NL out there No limit + Edge is higher over weaker players, especially super-weak players + Deviation is less + Not many good/great players until the higher limits - Harder to learn, not many (if any) really good ring game books out there - More stress (at least for me) when you have big hands. (Also this is a triple negative for people who have tilt problems) - Harder to multitable well, more than 4 is extremely difficult if you don't resort to nut-peddling. - Harder to find propping jobs (Not really important overall)
|
|
#137
07-31-2005, 08:23 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
Limit: + It is easier to become proficient due to numerous good books on the subject [/ QUOTE ] hahahahahha. Man, that's to funny. NL is a more exciting game with a tourney structure than as a cash game.
|
|
#138
07-31-2005, 08:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
street suicide was good, but only because things fell into place so perfectly. [/ QUOTE ] exactly. he's calling an all in with half the deck against him. Ive seen a fair share of players do a move like this in a live game and that post was the only one Ive heard of where the guy came out on top. Maybe he's a good player, dunno. But it seems like he's cool with coin flipping it, if he happens to be ahead at the moment. If he lived anywhere near portland, OR...id love to play him.
|
|
#139
07-31-2005, 08:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Limit: + It is easier to become proficient due to numerous good books on the subject [/ QUOTE ] hahahahahha. Man, that's to funny. NL is a more exciting game with a tourney structure than as a cash game. [/ QUOTE ] Did you mean to quote something else? I don't see the connection between your statement and the quote.
|
|
#140
07-31-2005, 10:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Why choose Limit over No-Limit?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] For me it's limit becuase of all the books on the game. That's what I've learn to play and do very well. I do want to branch out but researching very slowly. Hard to stop playing limit for a new game when I avg. $135 per hour playing one table at a time. [/ QUOTE ] with a sample size of an hour? [/ QUOTE ] No only about 175k hands.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
