**Discovery Countdown**

[kdotsky]

[ QUOTE ]
The big problem is when we do these things 'just to do them'. All of the experiments that have procuced worthwhile items could easily have been performed without the space shuttle.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true at all. Most of the innovations resulting from the space program were discovered in the process and wouldn't have been discovered otherwise. People would create new technology needed for the program and then realize its applications in other areas.

If the only purpose of the program was really just because it's neat to send stuff to space, it definitely wouldn't still be going on.

If everyone took your perspective on this, we would never have new technology, and we'd be much less developed today. Ever used a cell phone?

[WackityWhiz]

[ QUOTE ]
That's all fine and dandy and I hope for the people involved, it is successful.

But it seems that they can't even launch this hunk of junk without things 'falling off' it.

If they are going to spend all this [censored] money on this thing and cant even keep things from falling off, they need to seriously re-think priorities.

Hmmm, fund some schools or some other important item or strap a rocket to someones ass...

I dunno, maybe they are still scared of the Russians beating them to wasting money on Mars.

[/ QUOTE ]

practice makes perfect man. The program hasn't been around all that long and it's not surprising that they still have complications. There are so many things that we don't know about outer space that it's worth taking all this money and trying to get this thing right. Who knows, there could be something out there that, when you're 70, will save your life.

ya never know

[touchfaith]

I'm sick of the 'inventions' arguement.

Someone find me a list of things there were invented on the shuttle that could not have been invented in a station/capsule senerio.

And don't give me your 'retractable space arm' bs, since the only reason we have that is to repair the piece of crap shuttle. (tell me repairing satelites is cheaper then replaceing them and you are auto-DISQUALIFIED!)

[kdotsky]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sick of the 'inventions' arguement.

Someone find me a list of things there were invented on the shuttle that could not have been invented in a station/capsule senerio.

And don't give me your 'retractable space arm' bs, since the only reason we have that is to repair the piece of crap shuttle. (tell me repairing satelites is cheaper then replaceing them and you are auto-DISQUALIFIED!)

[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing what I said. Of course nothing was invented ON the shuttle that couldn't be invented elsewhere. My point was that the development of products used in the space program caused the creation of technologies used elsewhere that would either not have been though of or the technology didn't exist yet.

It's similar to any research area. The goal of the research my have no practical application, but along the way you discover things that do have practical applications. Here is a small list of byproducts of the space program. And yes, it's possible they could have been invented without a spaceprogram... but they weren't, and there's a reason for that.

TV Satellite Dish
NASA developed ways to correct errors in the signals coming from the spacecraft. This technology is used to reduce noise (that is, messed up picture or sound) in TV signals coming from satellites.

Medical Imaging
NASA developed ways to process signals from spacecraft to produce clearer images. (See more on digital information and how spacecraft send images from space.) This technology also makes possible these photo-like images of our insides.

Bar Coding
Originally developed to help NASA keep track of millions of spacecraft parts, bar-coding is now used by almost everybody who sells things to keep track of how much of what is sold and how much of what is left.

Vision Screening System
Uses techniques developed for processing space pictures to examine eyes of children and find out quickly if they have any vision problems. The child doesn't have to say a word!

Ear Thermometer
Instead of measuring temperature using a column of mercury (which expands as it heats up), this thermometer has a lens like a camera and detects infrared energy, which we feel as heat. The warmer something is (like your body), the more infrared energy it puts out. This technology was originally developed to detect the birth of stars.

Fire Fighter Equipment
Fire fighters wear suits made of fire resistant fabric developed for use in space suits.

Smoke Detector
First used in the Earth orbiting space station called Skylab (launched back in 1973) to help detect any toxic vapors. Now used in most homes and other buildings to warn people of fire.

Sun Tiger Glasses
From research done on materials to protect the eyes of welders working on spacecraft, protective lenses were developed that block almost all the wavelengths of radiation that might harm the eyes, while letting through all the useful wavelengths that let us see.

Automobile Design Tools
A computer program developed by NASA to analyze a spacecraft or airplane design and predict how parts will perform is now used to help design automobiles. This kind of software can save car makers a lot of money by letting them see how well a design will work even before they build a prototype.

Cordless Tools
Portable, self-contained power tools were originally developed to help Apollo astronauts drill for moon samples. This technology has lead to development of such tools as the cordless vacuum cleaner, power drill, shrub trimmers, and grass shears.

Aerodynamic Bicycle Wheel
A special bike wheel uses NASA research in airfoils (wings) and design software developed for the space program. The three spokes on the wheel act like wings, making the bicycle very efficient for racing.

Thermal Gloves and Boots
These gloves and boots have heating elements that run on rechargeable batteries worn on the inside wrist of the gloves or embedded in the sole of the ski boot. This technology was adapted from a spacesuit design for the Apollo astronauts.

Space Pens
The Fisher Space Pen was developed for use in space. Most pens depend on gravity to make the ink flow into the ball point. For this space pen, the ink cartridge contains pressured gas to push the ink toward the ball point. That means, you can lie in bed and write upside down with this pen! Also, it uses a special ink that works in very hot and very cold environments.

Shock Absorbing Helmets
These special football helmets use a padding of Temper Foam, a shock absorbing material first developed for use in aircraft seats. These helmets have three times the shock absorbing ability of previous types.

Ski Boots
These ski boots use accordion-like folds, similar to the design of space suits, to allow the boot to flex without distortion, yet still give support and control for precision skiing.

Failsafe Flashlight
This flashlight uses NASA's concept of system redundancy, which is always having a backup for the parts of the spacecraft with the most important jobs. This flashlight has an extra-bright primary bulb and an independent backup system that has its own separate lithium battery (also a NASA developed technology) and its own bulb.

Invisible Braces
These teeth-straightening braces use brackets that are made of a nearly invisible translucent (almost see-through) ceramic material. This material is a spinoff of NASA's advanced ceramic research to develop new, tough materials for spacecraft and aircraft.

Edible Toothpaste
This is a special foamless toothpaste developed for the astronauts to use in space (where spitting is not a very good idea!) Although this would be a great first toothpaste for small children, it is no longer available.

Joystick Controllers
Joystick controllers are used for lots of things now, including computer games and vehicles for people with disabilities. These devices evolved from research to develop a controller for the Apollo Lunar Rover, and from other NASA research into how humans actually operate (called "human factors").

Advanced Plastics
Spacecraft and other electronics need very special, low-cost materials as the base for printed circuits (like those inside your computer). Some of these "liquid crystal polymers" have turned out to be very good, low-cost materials for making containers for foods and beverages.

[touchfaith]

These, as you mention, are a result of the space program, not the shuttle program.

Tell me why we need the shuttle.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
These, as you mention, are a result of the space program, not the shuttle program.

Tell me why we need the shuttle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone had to be 51... Congrats!

[kdotsky]

[ QUOTE ]
These, as you mention, are a result of the space program, not the shuttle program.

Tell me why we need the shuttle.

[/ QUOTE ]

For one I was arguing more with this, which asks why we should go to space in general and mentions nothing of the shuttle:

[ QUOTE ]
Why the [censored] do we even need to go to space again? To perform research for future science classes that will not exist due to lack of funding?

Idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently you no longer agree with that and just think the shuttle program should be scrapped. As for that... because the creation of the shuttle program creates byproducts just like the rest of the space program did. Also, I'm not going to dig up figures but I do think the shuttle is significantly cheaper per mission than the original rocket/capsule system, which was its purpose.

Asking why we would build the shuttle is kind of silly I think. It'd be like people in 1920 asking why anyone should spend money to try and build better cars. They did their job well and were far superior to horse and wagons... Like I said before, if everyone took your point of view we would never advance on any technologies.

And by the way, they are scrapping the shuttle program, and are going to replace it with something you probably think is even more pointless and ridiculous.

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These, as you mention, are a result of the space program, not the shuttle program.

Tell me why we need the shuttle.

[/ QUOTE ]

For one I was arguing more with this, which asks why we should go to space in general and mentions nothing of the shuttle:

[ QUOTE ]
Why the [censored] do we even need to go to space again? To perform research for future science classes that will not exist due to lack of funding?

Idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently you no longer agree with that and just think the shuttle program should be scrapped. As for that... because the creation of the shuttle program creates byproducts just like the rest of the space program did. Also, I'm not going to dig up figures but I do think the shuttle is significantly cheaper per mission than the original rocket/capsule system, which was its purpose.

Asking why we would build the shuttle is kind of silly I think. It'd be like people in 1920 asking why anyone should spend money to try and build better cars. They did their job well and were far superior to horse and wagons... Like I said before, if everyone took your point of view we would never advance on any technologies.

And by the way, they are scrapping the shuttle program, and are going to replace it with something you probably think is even more pointless and ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason the shuttle was billed as more cost effective is because it is reusable.

I'm guessing that if they blow up, they cannot be reused.

Also, if we cannot perfect the shuttle or the parts that go into it and need to spend a billion dollars scratching our heads to figure out why, what makes you think they can perfect the next generation of shuttles?

I have no problems with space exploration in general, but I have a problem spending billions of dollars developing different ways to do something we already know how to do.

People developed better cars because they are something that is used everyday in all walks of life.