Did I overplay AQo?

[avisco01]

First of all, I've been running terribly and my confidence is pretty much shot... Sorry, had to vent a little. In any event, I don't know where to find the hand converter, so I did the best I could. No really good reads on any players, except that there was a lot of cold calling with weaker hands at this table. First of all, should I have slowed down on the flop? Should I have given up on the turn? Was this a classic crying call on the river?

***** Hand History for Game *****
$2/$4 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, July 27, 23:52:50 EDT 2005
Table Table (Real Money)

Hero is UTG

Dealt to Hero [ Ah Qd ]

Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls

4 big bets

** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 3c, 4d ]

BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, Button calls, BB folds, Hero raises, MP2 raises, Button calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button calls

10 big bets

** Dealing Turn ** [ Js ]

Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button calls, Hero calls

16 big bets

** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]

Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls

Final pot: 18 big bets

[Nick C]

I wouldn't have checked the flop (people are expecting you to bet anyway), but I guess it worked. Unfortunately, it looks like you also may have gotten outflopped by MP2.

I'd start becoming concerned when MP2 3-bet my flop checkraise, but I think I'd go ahead and cap anyway. That said, doing so does put you in the awkward position of having the initiative on the turn and possibly getting raised again. (And I don't like the turn card very much, which gives you an additional way to be behind.)

For his part, Button seems determined to see this hand through. The board doesn't seem very draw-heavy, so I'm thinking maybe he's being stubborn with a worse ace, which is unfortunate if that ace happened to be A5/A2. Also, there is some chance he has a monster and is content to let the two of you bet his hand for him. But I'm hoping he just has K4s or something instead. (Well, actually, I'd prefer his hand not to be as good as K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the turn. I'd prefer for him to have, say, A7o.)

I think MP2 quite likely has AK or aces up or a set, but I'd have trouble finding a fold. It would cheer me up a little when MP2 checked the river, but it's possible the 4-straight/3-flush on the board scared him, and I wouldn't be so happy when Button suddenly woke up either.

[arch12]

Here are my thoughts on the play:

Flop – I’m personally having a hard time understanding why you opted to check raise here. I think you have a good opportunity to protect your hand simply by betting out. With no way to pinpoint where a flop bet would come from, or if it would be bet at all, a check raise can inadvertently trap players into playing on. Capping the flop is also highly questionable in my opinion. Should the button have a gut shot or a two pair draw, you have effectively forced him into drawing on by creating such a large pot. Thus, he will likely have the correct odds to call the turn. I also question the cap because I feel it is doubtful you are ahead given all this action. After check raising and being reraised the likelihood of one pair being ahead is quite slim. Not to mention there is a player behind him who called 3 bets cold.
MY SUGGESTED LINE: Lead the flop; call a raise – since another player is likely drawing on (or beating you) so avoid creating correct odds to draw on

Turn – Given my flop line, I would lead the turn with the intention of folding to a raise if the button overcalls. I think that should you be raised again the only possible holdings you are ahead of are A9s or A10, depending of course on the player's aggression. If the button folds, I think your reads on the player should determine whether you should raise/call/fold.
*With a particular read on both players I think my turn play can change dramatically even with the button present; but this is my line against typical passive opponents

[Jake (The Snake)]

[ QUOTE ]
MY SUGGESTED LINE: Lead the flop; call a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP2 is the person who raises me I think you really need to 3-bet unless MP2 is really really passive. A cold-caller preflop is much more likely to have Ax than AK.

BTW, your posts are pretty good for someone with 10 posts.

[oreogod]

Id probably bet/3-bet the flop...call the cap. And probably call down once he leads the turn (if he capped the flop). If these are weaker players, cc and being passive, hes showing a ton of strength.

You could raise the turn following my line, but being 3-bet sucks. You have to think of what he's betting that you are beating. With that turn, you are not beating much in the way of A-whatever card.

[arch12]

[ QUOTE ]
If MP2 is the person who raises me I think you really need to 3-bet unless MP2 is really really passive. A cold-caller preflop is much more likely to have Ax than AK.

BTW, your posts are pretty good for someone with 10 posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I try to put a fair bit of effort into my posts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I think I'm letting the fact that it was capped by MP2 and all the action cloud my decision. It probably is more appropriate to 3-bet the flop because of the reason you mentioned. Given the limited information at your disposable when you are simply raised on the flop, concluding that you are ahead of a smaller A is likely the correct assumption. Thus 3 betting is a better option.

[avisco01]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are my thoughts on the play:

Flop – I’m personally having a hard time understanding why you opted to check raise here. I think you have a good opportunity to protect your hand simply by betting out. With no way to pinpoint where a flop bet would come from, or if it would be bet at all, a check raise can inadvertently trap players into playing on. Capping the flop is also highly questionable in my opinion. Should the button have a gut shot or a two pair draw, you have effectively forced him into drawing on by creating such a large pot. Thus, he will likely have the correct odds to call the turn. I also question the cap because I feel it is doubtful you are ahead given all this action. After check raising and being reraised the likelihood of one pair being ahead is quite slim. Not to mention there is a player behind him who called 3 bets cold.
MY SUGGESTED LINE: Lead the flop; call a raise – since another player is likely drawing on (or beating you) so avoid creating correct odds to draw on

Turn – Given my flop line, I would lead the turn with the intention of folding to a raise if the button overcalls. I think that should you be raised again the only possible holdings you are ahead of are A9s or A10, depending of course on the player's aggression. If the button folds, I think your reads on the player should determine whether you should raise/call/fold.
*With a particular read on both players I think my turn play can change dramatically even with the button present; but this is my line against typical passive opponents

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this makes a lot more sense. Tilt can be a bitch. This is the best hand I had in well over 2 hours, so I guess I was overzealous. The flop action screams two pair or a set for someone, and I picked a really bad time to be super aggressive. Anyways, thanks to everyone for your opinions.