did i misplay this AA too?

[Go_Blue88]

seriously, i have the feeling i used to get at the poker table right now. WHAT???? if any other card hit i may have won a good amount of money. what's wrong with taking a (small) risk and getting outdrawn by 74o? i'm so confused.

i don't want to be one of those posters who everyone constantly disagrees with yet he/she never sees from their perspective. but honestly, i just don't see how there's anything wrong with mixing up your style a bit. ya, it didn't work out this time, but i don't see what i should learn from this hand. never slowplay ever? or only slowplay when a flop is so good that it's absolutely impossible for you to get outdrawn?

[Slappz]

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: 5 6 A rainbow

Villian checks, X bets 1, Hero calls, Villian calls.


[/ QUOTE ]


Come on, that bet screams draw to me. Raise him. Sometimes they wont pay you off, but if they are gonna bet 1 you should be raising with a ton of hands so they might even play back at you.

[lange101]

Giving people odds to draw out on you never makes sense. Especially with stacks that are deep enough to take a chunk of your stack. On a drawing board, I'm betting enough to make the draws unprofitable for them. You ask what the problem with allowing him to draw on you? Well, look at the results. If I get action then good,, but there is no hand here that is a favorite against you. People who don't get money in the pot with the best hands lose money overall in the long run. When you have an edge you should push it. I mean, he may call any large bet hoping to bust you so why not just bet the flop like you normally would?

[kurto]

I think you're confusing when to mix it up. I would say mixing it generally means playing hands more aggressively that aren't usually that strong. Bluffing, playing draws more aggressively, etc. Mixing it up doesn't make sense when you have a monster hand and you allow people to cheaply bust you. This is the equivalent of saying to mix things up, you choose to fold pocket Aces preflop. Sure, you're mixing it up, but its not going to help your game. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I'll tell you, a lot of my biggest pots come from people getting cute with pocket aces. They limp in. I have something like 10J suited. the board comes 10 high. I bet, everyone folds except the guy with aces who calls. The turn brings a jack. I bet again and NOW they go all in. I happily call and stack them. Or I have pocket 2s, they have pocket aces, they raise preflop, I call. On the flop, its all overcards (to my 2s)... if they sneezed at the pot, I fold. But they give me a free card... a 2 falls and I bust them. Giving people free cards when your hand is vulnerable is just reducing your earnings.

In the hand you posted, you the board is 7-8-A. Any 4, 5, 6, 9, 10 or J can complete a straight. That's 24 cards that could help someone. You say 'mix it up' and give any of those people fantastic odds to hit their straight. Then, when they make it, you're going to call whatever they bet?!?

This is just terrible.

If you flopped Trip Aces and the board was 4-10-A rainbow, you could slowplay.

Even then, why? When you raise them, they EXPECT you to bet. You're going to make more money building the pot early. You have a monster and only 3 streets to build the pot. Why waste 1/3 of your opportunities to build the pot while you're ahead.

The only time I slowplay is when I have a nearly unbeatable hand AND there's a lot of aggressive players in the pot who I'm sure will bet for me. But most of the time, I just bet. Usually players call without proper odds. I'm certainly not going to give them proper odds to outdraw me.

Last- I find it interesting that I've seen a couple of people try to discount the minreraise. Sure there are people who do it with crap... but you can usually tell who those people are. I will say that most hands when I see people doing a minraise (after someone else's bet)... they've got a set or better. (Or their flush or straight got there.) Unless you're sure you have the nuts... its time to slowdown and look at what got there.

[bkfizz02]

[ QUOTE ]
when you flop top set with AA it is hard to make a lot of money unless the case ace hit vs AK or ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't think this ever happens...

[stu-unger]

u have to raise the flop if u have even semi thinking opponents. if u just come to life on a blank like u did its pretty obvious what u hold, therefore villains can play accordingly. besides u were the PF raiser u need to show some aggression on the flop, theres too many hands out to play this one slow.

[Proofrock]

I don't think this is a good candidate for slowplaying. For a slowplay to work, you need your opponent to make a second best hand that seems to villain to be the winning hand. If you had JJ and the flop was 3 7 J, then you'd be in a perfect spot to slowplay, since somebody could turn an ace or a king. However, you have AA with an A on the board -- there are no more overcards to fall, and how much money are you really going to make if somebody hits second pair?

Worse, though, is that there is always a straight draw when you flop a set with aces. In this hand, even a gutshot draw has proper odds to call $1 into a $15 pot, and when he hits he takes your stack. In the worst case scenario any 2,3,4,7,8, or 9 could make one of your two opponents a straight. If a person with a gutshot draw has 4 outs to beat you and a person with a pocket pair has 2 outs to make a second best hand, you'll be losing your stack more often than you'll be doubling up.

I think a more effective line to take here is to overbet the flop, say $30 here. The benefits to doing this are (1) draws don't get proper odds, (2) it looks like a bluff but leaves enough of a stack for somebody to come over the top to push you off your hand, and (3) it ensures you're only up against another strong hand (or a weak hand making a big mistake), and anybody with a strong hand now is drawing almost dead against your aces. It helps that villain is already irritated by your aggressive preflop raising, so this type of play should work well in the given situation.

-cj

[SydPokerFan]

I think there have been enough comments on the flop bet - but what about the comment "I assume that most of you would fold the turn?"
I am not folding this hand in the position you described - why on earth would you. there are many more hands that you are beating than beat you!

[Go_Blue88]

flop: 5 6 A

i think that you all give my opponents too wide of a hand range. if a 4 comes, i might need to worry about 78; if a 7 hits the turn, i may need to worry about 89; if a 9 hits maybe 78. connectors are really all that i'd consider. so i'm "worried" about a 4,7 and 9, just 3 ( edited to say: types of) cards. if any other card hits i can induce a bluff from villian or cause him to think his hand is good.

additionally, my other opponent would only call a raise with a premium hand and therefore, there's no chance that any of those cards mentioned above could help him.

i appreciate the advice, but i just don't agree.

lastly, someone mentioned that this may have been the wrong time to mix things up. this is a valid point. however, sometimes i check the flop behind when i miss, and so i also want to check the flop behind when i hit big hands. the goal was to get villian to make a mistake on the turn and it backfired.

given this opponent, i'd play it the same way again if i'm ever in a similar situation.

[spider]

Seems like you are already fairly sure you played it correctly, so not sure what you are asking about...

Anyway, I think you played it fine. Lots of ways you can play flop here depending on how the game has been going. Sometimes you lose, no big deal.

As far as folding on the turn, you'd have to be fairly sure that he would only push with a straight and not with 2 pair or a set since you are 3.6 to 1 to river him even when he has the straight. That is one hell of a read if you can be that sure.