Review: Hand 3, 88

[Aaron W.]

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I pay off this river without a read.

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I agree. You lose less than you think when this happens. Villains (generically) are more aggressive than you want to believe.

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I just realized that I misunderstood the context!! By paying off without a read, I mean I call down after being 3-bet on the flop. I don't raise the turn and bet the river.

[SlantNGo]

Yea, I thought we were assuming that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I just realized that I misunderstood the context!! By paying off without a read, I mean I call down after being 3-bet on the flop. I don't raise the turn and bet the river.

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[UATrewqaz]

I don't like the river bet, does not seem like a good value bet, as the opponent has shown strength throughout the hand. I'd worry he had a "bad" 6 or an overpair to the board that wasn't worth a pfr (say 99/TT).

[GrunchCan]

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So I just got started with the review session and I made it as far as hand 3 before I had a question. Does everyone raise this turn?

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I don't, and I don't think our hero should, either. I think Hero's action is 2+2 Standard, but I don't like it. The opponent isn't bet-reraising with just a 5 here. I'll call down in the off chance that the opponent is bluffing or being stupid with overcards or an underpair, but I see little to be gained by raising since he will normally have the trips that he is representing.

What's more, given that I just call the turn, if the opponent still checks the river, I'll take the free showdown. All sorts of hands that beat us could check there, like pairs or very weak trips.

And I swear that my answer is not affected by the results. This is how I play this spot.

[McGahee]

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So I just got started with the review session and I made it as far as hand 3 before I had a question. Does everyone raise this turn?

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I don't, and I don't think our hero should, either. I think Hero's action is 2+2 Standard, but I don't like it. The opponent isn't bet-reraising with just a 5 here. I'll call down in the off chance that the opponent is bluffing or being stupid with overcards or an underpair, but I see little to be gained by raising since he will normally have the trips that he is representing.

What's more, given that I just call the turn, if the opponent still checks the river, I'll take the free showdown. All sorts of hands that beat us could check there, like pairs or very weak trips.

And I swear that my answer is not affected by the results. This is how I play this spot.

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Hero's play may be 2+2 "Small Stakes" standard. It's certainly not micro-standard. I basically agree with Vehn's old post that says people give too much action on the flop and not enough on the turn - it's especially true for this forum and it's been a theme of mine since I started posting.

In this particular hand I would agree that a turn raise is bad after villian 3-bet the flop and led a 3-straight card on the turn.

The way hero played the turn, betting the river was pretty bad. The idea is to charge draws and actually take the free showdown. When you pop that turn AND bet the river the way he did, you're kind of saying that your opponent is a maniac AND a calling station, which doesn't really make any sense. In other words, you're assuming he's going nuts with a 5 and then all of the sudden he's going to check/call it on the end. You're either beat here or he missed his draw, so you check the river. That's kind of the whole point of the turn raise (as well as folding equity) even though I don't agree with the turn raise itself in this instance.

[fflyer]

Once the flop got raised, Hero should go into call down mode. There is a chance that his opponent has a 5 or a pair of sevens or that he is just trying to scare him off the pot with nothing. Maybe he just thinks that Hero is bluffing, and likes his two overcards. Probably he has the set, but the chances that he has something weaker are good enough to justify calling down. If his opponent was bluffing the flop, he might bluff the turn and even the river as well.

[JKDStudent]

I'm just starting to go through the session and this hand bothered me. I do not like the turn raise. We're down to two players and probably behind. Raising this turn may give us a free showdown, but that showdown is probably no good if we don't improve.

I would rather call this turn and call the river, which costs the same (less, if villain 3-bets turn and/or bets river after a turn raise). Also, calling the turn ensures that villain will bet the river again, letting us raise if we make the straight.