Who like this?

TheDelChop · #1 07-23-2005, 08:27 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises???

Spartan1983 · #2 07-23-2005, 10:33 PM

I think it's ok. It would kind of suck to be 3bet or worse. Position obviously sucks. If your [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]'s come in, you'll be smelling like roses.

RedZak · #3 07-23-2005, 11:47 PM

I don't like it. You have a medium suited ace with 4 limpers and the SB already in the pot. You could easily be raising when dominated if there are some tight/passive players amongst those limpers. Why are you trying to build a pot with an ok hand out of position?

#4 07-24-2005, 12:44 AM

Agree. His pair strength is dubious at best and reverse implies the hell of you.

I realize you were trying to build a pot with your nut flush potential, and this play would be okay on the button, since you can take freecards and better control the hand post-flop, but to make this play OOP I need at least ATs.

I want more ways to win besides my flush potential.

ArturiusX · #5 07-24-2005, 12:47 AM

I like to see a cheap flop. A8s really needs to hit with this many players, you'll get more action without a preflop raiser too.

dealer_toe · #6 07-24-2005, 01:13 AM

I like to see how my hand develops on the flop, then we can get aggressive. I'm not a fan of that raise solely because you're OOP. It's a raise I love to make w/ the button though.

TheDelChop · #7 07-24-2005, 02:30 AM

you don't think that players are giving you credit for a much stronger hand? Plus, you now have a huge pot to play with when you flop your flush draw.

ALthough I'm not an odds expert, I think this is a simple case of figuring out how many times that you flop a flush draw or a set or two pair and win vs.the 13-1 your getting when everyone calls. I think you win this pot way more than 13-1 and that makes this +EV.

RedZak · #8 07-24-2005, 02:45 AM

This isn't +EV in fact I think it's usually -EV depending on the game you are in. The field is too big and your position too bad to have even a remote chance of winning this pot simply by betting. You are going to have to hit a hand, and often when you do it will be a second best hand. You also are in no position to protect your hand when you make a weak best hand on the flop. If you are arguing that your chances of flopping a set or a flush draw or two pair make this a profitable raise, then why wouldn't you raise any 2 suited cards in this spot? your chances of flopping a set or a flush draw or two pair are the same with any 2 suited cards.

molawn2mo · #9 07-24-2005, 03:11 AM

This plays fine when and only when the flop comes with 2 clubs, an 8, an A w/ a club.

On a bad or iffy flop, you deny the big hand that you represented pf if you do not bet out. If you bet out it is spewery.

Axs is a raise "to isolate" or when in CO or Button but not OOP, IMHO.

Vote4Pedro · #10 07-24-2005, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ALthough I'm not an odds expert, I think this is a simple case of figuring out how many times that you flop a flush draw or a set or two pair and win vs.the 13-1 your getting when everyone calls. I think you win this pot way more than 13-1 and that makes this +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brilliant