Analyzing Hands Where I'm Stacked With AA.

-Skeme- · #1 07-22-2005, 08:49 PM

I have 4 hands in my PT database where I lose my entire stack with Aces. I have explanations of my thought process for each hand, but I won't post these writeups until later.

Please give your opinion for each hand # on whether or not you think I could've escaped unscathed. I'll follow up with my opinion on each hand as well. In addition to whether or not you think I should've gotten away, please list anything you do differently like you would in a normal post. Reads are nonexistant.

----- Hand #1 -----
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed)

MP1 ($199.35)
MP2 ($82.75)
MP3 ($94.50)
Hero ($197)
Button ($137.65)
SB ($108.45)
BB ($90.25)
UTG ($63.80)
UTG+1 ($200)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 calls $2, 1 fold, MP3 calls $2, Hero raises to $14, 3 folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $12, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($35) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $20, Hero raises to $183, MP1 calls $163.

Turn: ($401) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($401) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $401

Results in white below: 
MP1 has 6s 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero has Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: MP1 wins $401. 
-----

--

----- Hand #2 -----
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)

SB ($221.20)
BB ($195.85)
UTG ($190.60)
UTG+1 ($142.40)
MP1 ($52.70)
MP2 ($125.20)
MP3 ($127.80)
Hero ($100)
Button ($101.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, MP1 raises to $4, 1 fold, MP3 calls $4, Hero (poster) raises to $15, 3 folds, MP1 calls $11, MP3 calls $11.

Flop: ($46.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $25, MP1 raises to $37.7, MP3 calls $37.70, Hero calls $12.70.

Turn: ($159.60) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets $20, Hero calls $20.

River: ($199.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP3 bets $28, Hero calls $27.30 (All-In).

Final Pot: $254.90

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Qc Qd (two pair, queens and sevens).
MP3 has 5c 5h (full house, fives full of sevens).
Hero has Ad Ac (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: MP3 wins $254.89. 
-----

--

----- Hand #3 -----
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed)

BB ($41.80)
UTG ($78.95)
UTG+1 ($127.90)
Hero ($100)
MP2 ($56.10)
CO ($12.15)
Button ($45.65)
SB ($145.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, SB raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $9, Hero raises to $25, SB raises to $133.25, Hero calls $63 (All-In).

Turn: ($246.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($246.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $246.25

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Ac (two pair, aces and fours).
SB has Jd Jc (full house, jacks full of fours).
Outcome: SB wins $246.25. 
-----

--

----- Hand #4 -----
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)

Button ($150.95)
SB ($53.80)
BB ($98.05)
UTG ($100.90)
UTG+1 ($39)
Hero ($100)
MP2 ($100)
MP3 ($98.40)
CO ($76.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, 5 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero calls $16.

Turn: ($56.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $20, Hero raises to $72, BB calls $50.05 (All-In).

River: ($198.55) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $198.55

Results in white below: 
BB has Kh Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Hero has As Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins $196.60. Hero wins $1.95. 
-----

Thanks.

bweiser8311962 · #2 07-22-2005, 08:54 PM

I am not good enough to lay down AA unless I'm sure the guy has a flush or a straight and its very obvious on the board.

Dropped top two pair last night with A/Q with A/Q/10 on theboard, when the guy hit the Q on the turn to give him a straight with J/K. I read his raise correctly and made the lay down.

I don't see myself laying down AA ever because I fear a set. Someone better might be able to give you a read on what to look for.

BobboFitos · #3 07-22-2005, 09:12 PM

i dont like hand 1, call the flop. then on the turn when he bets move in.

hand 2 you should reraise more pf, it's impossible not getting stuck in here with the short stack. raise all in on the turn.

hand 3 is VERY well played. most of the time he is drawing to 2 outs, dead, or rarely has AK/AQ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Occaisonally he has top set.

hand 4 i just call the turn, but then again, i cant imagine folding for half pot on the river, so maybe its better to put it in then. no way i put him on kkk.

reason being is his flop c/r is flushdraw, straight draw(??) overplayed 1 pair, 67, set, or i guess KK. (never would've guess kk... you must not raise alot pf) on the turn kq, 67, diamonds, etc all beat you but you're priced due to overpair plus 4flush. since he's not folding a better hand to a push, (he may even fold something like AQ, which has 2outs) call and plan to get all in on the river. if he checks and the board pairs Q or K or something I suppose you could check behind. obviously on an ace or diamond it's all in, and maybe if 6 or 7 falls i could fold.

krazyace5 · #4 07-22-2005, 09:12 PM

I am glad you posted these because I have quite a few AA hands that look just like these ones.

Nothing else to add except I am looking forward to others replies.

jasonHoldEm · #5 07-22-2005, 09:19 PM

With AA most of the time you're going to win a small pot or lose a big one...the trick is to avoid losing the big ones.

1. Pushing on the flop only gurantees you'll be called by a set. I probably raise here to 60-80 and see what happens...if he comes over the top I'm willing to fold...chances are he'll call and trap me on the turn (because I'd bet any non-club turn and he'll probably c/r me). It's a difficult spot, but pushing is suicide.

2. Preflop I raise to 20-30...mp1 has something and I'd love to have him move all-in when I'm 100% certain I have the best hand. If MP3 coldcaller comes along then so be it...he woulda busted me like he did to you, but if MP1 moves in and he calls again with a baby pair (for half his stack) I really don't have a problem with it.

3. You gotta pop this again preflop, someone re-raising out of the blinds generally has a high quality hand, get the money in there when you have the best hand and avoid making mistakes later...I'd raise to $35-50.

4. I call the turn and fold unimproved...you are behind and pushing isn't going to get him to fold.

Just my .02,
J

crosse91 · #6 07-22-2005, 09:22 PM

here's my feeble attempt-
hand 1: i'd re-raise but not with my whole stack-seems like a great way to win a small pot/lose a huge one, however- i do see how you thought you had him beat with his preflop call does not seem like a pp of the board..
still-i just think that pushing here is too extreme-i'd reraise to about 70...and play very carefully from there on out

hand 2-tough hand. from the flop action mp3's coldcall is scary-very scary and screams set. However, i'd have to call b/c its cheap at that point is so weak. However, the mp3 i think has indicated that he's ready to play for your stack so this cold call/the mp1 raise should really be read as 60 bucks to you-b/c it's all probably going in. The weak beats from there on forward-i'd have to call those too. I get stacked here probably.

Hand 3-What is he re-re-raising here that you beat? Not much, i think-i'd probably fold. But depending on how donkish i'm feeling...i'd occasionally call. But the re-reraise is scary enough for me to fold.

~EDIT~ reraise preflop on this hand please, that reraise is indiciative of oa good hand from the blinds, did you think you could stack off on flop from an all undercard board so you just called? Is that enough of a runon sentence for you?

Hand 4-
preflop: standard....
flop: meh. good open-bet, i don't know if i like the call. This is a situation where i think after the re raise that you have to fold or push....depends on how confident you are against this opponent. I'm scared of the large reraise tho.
turn:not to be overly critical but i hate this turn play. Are you pushing for fold equity here? Your all-in saves you a river decision-BUT-thats the only good thing it does here. Villian has shown great strength with a flop reraise and a turn lead-your probably in trouble (even if his turn lead was weak) What hands does he call with here that you beat? A flush card hit, K-Q is highly possible, as are kk and qq. I just don't think your beating enough hands for this to be correct.
here's my big feeling from this hand-if you really wanted to get your money in so badly (see turn) then why not push flop?

DiabloVt7 · #7 07-22-2005, 09:28 PM

heres my advice- when you raised and the SB reraised you DO NOT JUST CALL. pop back the SB a heavy amount and be willing to get it all in preflop with the best hand. Without doing that, you are going to be unsure if you still have the best hand on the flop, turn or river, and sometimes will make mistakes.

Sometimes you will get it all in AA vs. KK and a K will hit (or quads will come like it did to me last night), but you can not get mad at yourself for that happenning. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

-Skeme- · #8 07-22-2005, 09:45 PM

Good replies. Here are my responses. I encourage other posters who are planning on replying to NOT read my explanations before doing so. Thanks again.

-----
Explanations:

Hand #1:

The hand immediately before this, on another table, I had just lost a $170 pot to runnner runner. With a board of [2c 7h Ts], I managed to lose with top set to AQo. All in on the flop, by the way. Needless to say, I was tilting very hard. Before I can close my windows and leave as I am tilting hard, I get dealt Aces on the next table. After a bunch of limpers, I raise it to $14, and receive a few callers. Common sense would indicate that I'm being called my small PPs in hopes of flopping a set. I'm viewed as a tight player and it would be reasonable to put me on JJ-AA in this spot, although I will often raise it here with 99 and above. The flop comes T high and guy leads into me for a $20 bet. Genius play, I jam like an idiot and lose my stack to the obvious set. Good play by Villain, crappy play by Hero. I don't know if I could've laid it down, but I really don't like jamming. I think I lose here anyway, just not all at once. I think a good raise on the flop leaves me stuck, and by then the pot is huge and hard to get away from. Whatever. I dislike the push.

-----

Hand #2:

Again, it's obvious I have Aces or Kings here due to my tight image. Obvious to a decent player, probably not too obvious to new Villain's or total idiots. Nevertheless, their more probable holdings if they play back at me are either sets or overpairs. The overpair going to MP1, who open-raised the pot, and the small PP/set going to MP3, who just called. Flop is good, I bet $25, I assume to induce a push from MP1, I don't really remember. When MP1 overcalls I know I have trouble, duh, a set. He bets $20 into a $75,000 pot and I call down. Now here's the dilemma.. he cold-called that all in reraise on a drawless board. This screams set 99% of the time, and maybe ONCE in a million times it's Jacks, but doubtful. I'm getting 9:1 on the turn, but I'm almost 100% sure I'm beat. Gahhhhh, I wish I had the willpower to fold there. I should've. Definitely tricky.

-----

Hand #3:

I open for 4xBB and get reraised a decent amount. I put him on AKo, Kings and MAYBE Queens. Nothing lower. I decide to slowplay as he has a full stack and I'm in position. I dislike reraising as it'd probably scare off Queens and maybe even Kings. As long as the flop isn't Q or K, I'm happy going to war. Flop is J high with 2 spades, he bets weak into it, probably expecting me to raise. Sure thing, I have the Aces, you have the lesser overpair. Alright, I raise and he jams, I call expecting to see QQ/KK, but not Jacks, which was what he had. Do I think I can get away from this? No, I think I lose here. Tough break.

-----

Hand #4:

Standard raise. BB calls. His range is anything here. I pot it, he makes a crazy check-raise. Anybody jam right here? Turn is an overcard and the 3rd Diamond. I doubt he'd check-raise a big amount with Diamonds, and as I have the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], I don't put him on the flush. He bets a third of the pot and I jam with my overpair and Diamond draw. He calls with Kings and I lose. I don't think I could've gotten away from this from the way I played it. I think I need to decide what he's check-raising me with on the flop that I beat. AQ? KQ? Tough to say if I'm beat or not, but with my redraw on the turn I think I'm locked in. If I just call on the turn, do you think I can fold to the J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] river? Perhaps just calling the turn bet and calling a river all in, checking behind, and possibly folding is better than jamming? I doubt I fold out ANYTHING that I'm beating with my all in.. tricky hand, I think I either lose my stack or make a really good laydown on the river. Barring a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or Ace, of course.
-----

lange101 · #9 07-22-2005, 10:41 PM

Hand #1: What is Villain calling with that you have beat? TPTK? Maybe KK or QQ but can after you show so much aggression? If you think he is leading out a flush draw then I can see a reraise. If you think you have him beat at this point you are not getting your max value on this hand, and if you don't have him beat... well, you are not getting max value on this hand. Preflop I see villain reraising with KK. Post flop I don't see villain calling without more than a pair.

Hand #2: Raise, call, reraise, call call. They may not have premium hands but again, but I could easily see them on any pp. He flat calls the raise, reraise all in. No flush draw on the board so I don't see him on a draw or a weird straight draw. He then leads the turn and river. I'm putthing him on something really strong. I could even see him calling with some sort of suited connector hoping to bust you on your overpair (which he would have to be an idiot not to recognize). He is leading into you knowing you have an over pair. With that said, I don't know if I get away from this hand either. especially with his bets on turn and river. but with two callers preflop i can see a set in this situation.

hand #3: This is a hand that I really am not sure I'm getting away from. I might try and get it all in preflop, but his raise shows you a strong hand. KK, QQ, maybe JJ, AK or even less likely AA. When he re reraises me all in on the flop though, I might think he has QQ or KK and pray he doesn't have JJ. I think I'm calling, praying, and getting stacked off. Sucks. Only suggestion is to get it all in preflop.

Hand #4: This is another tough situation. His flat call preflop doesn't give you a ton of information. He reraises your flop bet though and I might immediately be curious what type of hand he has. Set, two pair, tpgk, tptpk, or flush draw. If I think that he has top pair or a flush draw I'm reraising all in and getting the money in there. if i think he has a set or two pair then i might just call. without any reads in this situation i'm probably just calling. the turn card is the worst card that I could hope for. If I am playing this hand anymore I am not pushing. i am probably calling. but most likely i don't like my hand anymore. the only hands you are beating on the the turn are AQ, AK (which is extremely unlikely) or a complete bluff. KQ here would not surprise me too much. The check raise on the flop though has me scared. I think that I'm laying this down on the turn and feeling like it was a good lay down.

Hand 3 is the only hand where I really find it truly difficult to lay the hand down. The other hands though, seem much easier to lay it down. don't get me wrong though. AA is a tough hand to lay down. tough beats. good luck on AA in future hands.

jasonHoldEm · #10 07-23-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #4...I think that I'm laying this down on the turn and feeling like it was a good lay down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the turn is a mistake, you're getting the right price to draw. It's likely the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is not an out, but (almost certainly) the other diamonds are clean as are the other two aces giving you 10 outs total. You have the right price based on pot odds alone. The fact you are freerolling a $50 bonus (he's likely to pay you off if you hit your hand and we fold unimproved) just sweetens the deal, this is a clear call.

J