QQ fold preflop

[lapoker17]

Did BB look at his cards before SB completed?

[radioheadfan]

Who completes in the SB with only the BB left to act and then comes over the top? Did the SB see the BB's cards or something? If so it's a brilliant move with AA or KK if the SB knows that the BB will raise his QQ preflop.

Assuming this isn't the case (the SB did not see the BB's cards), then I'm compelled to call the $100, see the flop, and get a better read on the SB.

Seems like the SB could easily have 77-JJ and think the BB was on a move to steal the pot, and that UTG has something like KQs or 22-66. So I put the SB on a much wider range than AA/KK. I'd call the bet, and play the hand in position. I'd decide on the flop whether he has AA or KK. If my read is that he's on a lower pair than my QQ, I'd raise enough on the flop to commit myself to the pot. Otherwise I'd muck to a 1/2-full pot continuation bet.

Tough hand. But I think you at least have to see the flop and his flop action / body language.

[just2ska]

[ QUOTE ]

Here's the problem I have with folding (besides the fact that it's less fun): if you're folding QQ here, then presumably it's because you think there's a high chance you're up against AA/KK. If my opponent is that tight and readable, then doesn't it make sense to take a flop with him, getting 2:1 right now, with $850 left in our stacks? If I flop a set, there'll be 300 in the pot with 3 betting rounds left; shouldn't be too hard to get the whole 850 from him--what could he do if you bet/raised the size of the pot?

Plus, we ought to have some additional equity by moving all-in if an Ace flops (without a King flopping as well), though you could argue that his small ($100) re-raise pre-flop can only be Aces, since he can't give an Ace-high hand 2:1. Obviously we don't put another chip in the pot unless a Queen or an Ace flops.

I guess there's nothing too wrong with just leaving it alone if he plays this tight and predictably, but if you're just gonna reload if you somehow get stacked in this hand, then it seems like it's worth making a "bad" call pre-flop, since sucking out on this type of player's Aces/Kings may lead him to play much worse. And if he wins, he'll be making a huge mistake only reraising you 100 bucks in this spot next time, if the stacks are 2 grand apiece.

[/ QUOTE ]

great post.

[lapoker17]

Good post Radiohead. I agree that his hand range is far wider than AA-KK.

I also wonder if SB has a lot of experience with UTG and knows that UTG often limps big pairs UTG so he is afraid to raise himself. Once SB raises and UTG gets out of the way, SB now thinks his 99-JJ is probably good.

I'm calling the $100 here nearly every time and may reraise.

[LuvDemNutz]

Was this a live game?

If so, perhaps SB had a read that BB was going to raise and SB wanted to trap UTG's money with the reraise.

Or maybe SB is extremely passive and decided that he didn't want to build a pot OOP with AA or KK and figured he'd just take a flop and see what happened. Then he changed his mind after BB raised.

Or SB put BB on a steal and decided to reraise his 88-JJ, AK.

There is no way I fold here if I'm BB.

[flawless_victory]

hi cero...
2 ppl limp, SB completes, BB checks...
flop xxx checkcheckcheckcheckcheckcheckcheckcheck... SB shows AA/KK and wins. i puke. i have seen this more than once... some ppl just suck.
he doesnt give a description of the player, but this tiny reraise looks very likely to be AA. he might be such a nit that he wont pay you off on a Qhigh flop... maybe a J is a better scare card than an A! i understand everything you said, and im not completely opposed, but im folding here. give me 89s and im calling (id raise this PF 95% of the time)... can i call profitably with a small pair or suited connector? maybe... kinda close, but its good for my image and i want to bust this guy.
he said this was tight 5/10 ring. a guy limped UTG and the BB raised him... cmon... that looks big. now this guy baby limpraises (after UTG called i assume!). look like AA.
of course this can be a play... nothing is certain... big deal.

[Leroy Soesman]

good analysis. This hand was online, so the cards were as well hidden as they could be, discounting a pattern map here and there.

The choice between calling or folding the QQ to me is tipped towards folding more and more because I don't really see a clear profitable line form the flop on, with the pot at about a third of the stacks. Only reason i'd take this rather difficult hand to a flop myself might be Cero Z's suggesed Shania-esque motives. But i'm beginning to like the fold.

I don't see QQ calling a flop bet and then betting or raising the turn, with the pot at a minimum of $600 by the time you get there. Because any bet by the SB basically commits him to the pot. Maybe if he checked the turn to you, but even then I'm not happily betting it or checking it through.

Raising the flop all-in has been suggested, but that to me seems like pushing in, without knowing anything more than you did preflop.

I guess if your opponents checks the flop to you, you might pop a raise on the turn, but I don't see this happening often enough to justify calling the $100 preflop.

So basically what i'm saying is, that if you take this hand to the flop, it's going to be damn hard to put SB on a hand weak or strong. I'm probably missing something, can anyone suggest an alternative line you might take here?

[Dr. StrangeloveX]

The two times in my life I have done this I had AK, and 78s. With AK I was trying to isolate an idiot shortstack who had limp raised all in, and I ran into the BB's KK. With 78s the BB was raising pretty light and I didn't think he could take a lot of heat, he called the reraise and folded ATs to a pot sized bet on a 5 high flop.

This seems like a really stupid move to make without aa/kk because who is going to believe you completed with one of them. I have never completed with AA or KK in my life (excluding heads up play). There is no way I fold QQ here unless this guy is some kind of supermoron. I call the raise and raise all in on any flop without an ace or king, because the sb's hand range is really really wide here, AK all the way down to 72o (and aa/kk if he is a flake or misclicked).

Do you have any reason to believe SB has had enough of you raising weak hands out of the blinds, and is just taking a shot at you?

[creedofhubris]

Against the right players, I'm laying this down just about every time.

[Deftoner]

[ QUOTE ]
Against the right players, I'm laying this down just about every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against the right type of players im re-raising everytime. These types of posts aren't exactly constructive or helpful.