A10s- poorly played

[adamstewart]

What are the stakes for this hand?

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't need to raise this preflop.

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wrong, wrong, wrong.


Raising in the BB with ATs is the correct play in a 10-handed game, let alone a 6-player one.


[ QUOTE ]
You're in the big blind, so you're not folding anybody out. Not enough players to try for a big multi-way pot. Keep it small so you can protect on the flop.

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Look up the concept of "pot equity."



Adam

[adamstewart]

I'm pretty sure I play it the same way most of the time (except that I raise preflop).

In actual play, I think I quickly 3-bet this at least 90% of the time.

However, I'm wondering about the following line: call the flop, then raise SB's bet on a non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn. Seems to me that even by 3-betting the flop, the next caller in line is getting at least 5.5:1 money to call two bets. The pot odds increase for each subsquent caller. Therefore, if anyone has even any piece of this flop they're usually correct to call. (Then again, according to the Fundamental Theorm of Poker, 3-betting may have the advantage of folding out some of those who are not educated enough to realize that calling is correct).



After the flop action, I'm not sure whether SB has a flush draw or a something like a set. Therefore, I'll usually call down (as long as no one raises behind me on the turn or river).

[steaknshake925]

I like this hand except preflop which you should raise of course. Also, depending on the stakes I might actually find a fold on the river. between SB's powerfulness and the callers behind you I dont see AT good 1/14 of the time here.

[ QUOTE ]
However, I'm wondering about the following line: call the flop, then raise SB's bet on a non- turn.

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im really against raising the turn. you are likely behind but your 2pair outs may well be good, so getting 3bet would suck balls.

the flop 3bet seems fine, i think it makes the rest of the hand easier to play

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
Look up the concept of "pot equity."



Adam

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Look up the concepts of deception and protecting your hand. I'm not saying a 3-bet pf is bad, just that it's not the only way to play this. If you don't raise preflop you keep the pot small enough to protect your hand with a bet. You can also checkraise if you have an aggro player behind you. Same number of bets go in when you hit, less when you miss. Plus you better protect your hand.

Now, on the flop. How much equity do you think you have here? SB may well have a better ace than you, and if not, someone certainly has a flush draw. By just calling the flop and raising the turn, you can knock out a lot of hands with outs to beat you. Plus if you get re-raised or bet into on the river, you can safely fold, thereby losing the minimum.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Look up the concepts of deception and protecting your hand. I'm not saying a 3-bet pf is bad, just that it's not the only way to play this.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'd put money on the fact that you don't always raise AA or KK preflop.




Adam

[naphand]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't raise preflop you keep the pot small enough to protect your hand with a bet.

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Ho-ho. I remember a discussion like this a long time ago, involving me and a few others (stripsqueeze as well) about to raise or not to raise PF to hurt the limpers on the Flop. Its a good debating point and I took your line initially, but now believe it is better reserved for very specific situations (which I cannot think of right now, but there will be some).

ATs is too good not to raise PF, you very likely have the best Ace (no-one raised) and you have a hand that can make some serious nut-hands. You want a bloated pot PF for when you pick up a draw and everyone keeps calling drawing dead, plus TP will still win more than its fair share.

Don't get too fancy with your ideas of "deception" or "protecting small pots", if you are playing $5/$10 or less you are not in games that involve fighting over very small edges or where deception and controlling pot equity make the difference between a winner and break-even player.