Announcing "Answered" Prayers Both Stupid and Disgusting - Page 6

dragon14 · #51 07-21-2005, 10:47 AM

First of all you're taking this quote from my reply to zeno not my reply to your post.

My problem with your post was that you are insulting a woman who is overjoyed that her son who was feared dead was found alive. Anyone who prays a lot certainly gets their share of unanswered prayers. (Keep in mind I'm not endorsing prayer here, just equating it to goal-setting, wishes, etc.)

Parents of children who were not found alive who are religious will certainly question God's intentions in allowing their son or daughter to die on their own. It's not as if the Utah woman's quote would be the only reason a religious person would question what their God had in mind.

My main point is that questioning someone's thoughtfullness or lack thereof at an extremely emotional time seems a bit unfair. At a strong emotional point one can't expect complete rationality of thought.

Dov · #52 07-21-2005, 11:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My main point is that questioning someone's thoughtfullness or lack thereof at an extremely emotional time seems a bit unfair. At a strong emotional point one can't expect complete rationality of thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS is the whole point.

This woman will forever live her life now based on the conclusions she came to during this period of irrational thought.

She came to this conclusion in the first place because of sloppy thinking and religious training and will now draw lifelong motivation from the (probably) wrong conclusions that she is drawing during her vulnerable moments.

She is not the only one who does this, it's typical of most people. The problem is that it's also backward. Most of our instinctive reactions are not the most efficient or effective way to deal with a situation. That's what training and techniques are for.

This training, though, causes her to believe something, which, in here case worked out to her benefit, but is just as likely to cause equal or greater damage simultaneously to someone else.

What if, the next time something goes very badly for her God 'doesn't' answer her prayers. Let's say, for example that her child, now returned, gets sick 3 weeks later and dies.

Then what does she say? She'll still pray for him while he's sick, I would imagine.

BTW, I know it's hypothetical so please don't start by saying it didn't happen that way.

Josh W · #53 07-21-2005, 01:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"God does not want Earth to be perfect. That's what heaven is for."

I disagree. It's not Him who makes the world imperfect. It is the sin of mankind. He created a perfect world in the Garden of Eden. It was Adam and Eve who brought sin into the world (and thus, separated man from God). Earth has been imperfect ever since.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with WHY Earth isn't imperfect, obviously. But if God wanted Earth to be perfect again, He could make it so. But just like parents don't give their kids everything they want (i.e. answer their kids prayers) because they have a bigger picture in mind, God doesn't give people everything they want on Earth.

Josh

The Dude · #54 07-21-2005, 01:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
While it is entirely possible that these things are for a purpose (or, in your example, that God did answer the prayer), it is more often than not nonsense.[ QUOTE ]
How do you know?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Everybody with half a brain knows.

txag007 · #55 07-21-2005, 01:56 PM

I know what you're saying, but you are talking about two different things. God did not WANT the world to become imperfect. Adam and Eve's sin was not part of His plan. It broke his heart. So why did he give them the forbidden fruit in the first place? He gave man a choice, so he would know our love for Him is real. The same applies as to why He doesn't just kill Satan and make the world perfect again. He wants us to CHOOSE him.

Now, if you are talking about why God doesn't answer everyone's prayers all the time. You're right. He sees the big picture that we do not.

txag007 · #56 07-21-2005, 02:05 PM

"How do you know?
Everybody with half a brain knows"

You said you don't believe God puts specific people in our lives for a purpose. I believe He does. I'm just asking for your reasoning. What makes you think it's nonsense?

Dov · #57 07-21-2005, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You said you don't believe God puts specific people in our lives for a purpose. I believe He does. I'm just asking for your reasoning. What makes you think it's nonsense?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the problem with this question is a question too.

What makes you think this belief isn't nonsense other than the fact that you believe it?

txag007 · #58 07-21-2005, 03:52 PM

"What makes you think this belief isn't nonsense other than the fact that you believe it?"

The Bible says God has a plan for our lives. If this is true, then it would seem logical to me that he would do this. I don't know how much weight that holds with you because I'm not sure if you believe that the Bible is true.

Regardless, that's my reasoning. What's yours?

David Sklansky · #59 07-21-2005, 05:31 PM

"Are you asserting that if there's a 1 in 100 chance of an event occuring, and all 100 people pray devoutly on it, that still only 1 person will get their desired outcome?"

Believe it or not, that is what I am saying.

"Are you saying this is true, and if so, do you have any reason why you believe this?"

Because I have known many situations where it is clear that many are praying and the number who are answered is what probablity would predict.

"Don't think that God HAS TO follow all the laws of physics and probability that you do."

Correct. That's the point.

dragon14 · #60 07-21-2005, 06:08 PM

Dov,

I think Sklansky was too harsh with his judgment of this woman. Whether or not rational thought is preferable to irrational thought is not something I'm discussing in my posts.

He seems to be trying to score points about religion at a time of extreme circumstances. Very few people will appear on television to announce to the media that their son who was feared dead is now alive. Saying that your prayers, hopes, dreams etc., were realized in this case is unlikely to cause anyone any harm. Religious people are certainly aware that they do not get everything they ask for whether prayers, wishes, or desires.

Most religious people are aware that taking action towards a goal is more likely to help them than simply praying. That's why most religious people go to work, visit the doctor, etc. They don't pin all their hopes on religion, but if before going to bed at night they say a few prayers I'm not sure what the harm is.