Getting back into limit

[DavidC]

Hey dude,

If I tried, I could write about this hand for 3 hours, if it were HU, and the cold-caller complicates the matter further.

This is a truly fascinating hand.

I would suggest that you're behind preflop, though I'm not sure exactly to what.

This is highly dependent on the players involved, of course.

All of my lines start with raising the flop.

--Dave.

Oh yeah, and the fact that the guy's short-stacked complicates matters further.

[GrunchCan]

Actually, I think the opponent being short stacked simplifies it somewhat. There are two basic forces in opposition to reading the opponent here: first, a SB 3-bet is usually a very strong hand. Second, a short stack 3-bet from any position is often stacking off.

If the opponent were not short stacked, I'm raising the flop and possibly getting away at the turn depending on the action & the size of the pot. But becasue the opponent is short, his hand range opens up to a degree. There are 3 hands that a SB 3-bet traditionally has: AA, KK and AK. But SB's range could be much wider than that, to include any pocket pair, any two broadway, and maybe even things like T9s.

If he had whiffed broadway cards, he probably slows down on the turn, but would allow himself to get all-in by calling. So I think a heart draw is most likely, maybe something like A9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

So on the turn I think we have an equity edge, and I'll still raise.

[AmarilloJim1]

I like the raise the flop line.

[gopnik]

I would have raised the flop to knock MP2 out.

[istewart]

Raising the flop has definite merits (knocking out MP2's 67 or A3). But this is a relatively safe board all things considered.

I think I would still raise the flop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Pylos]

I like the preflop play, however if you think that MP2 is not going to cold call 2 bets capping might have been the play according to your read.

On the flop you are vulnerable to 3-bet worthy hands such as KK and AK. Usually in this spot I will raise for information, however I am not quite sure if this is the "correct" play - it just feels right with the texture that I see.

Also on the Turn, I didn't realize that SB was playing a small stack until now, which could put him on a variety of diffrent hands in which he would not be willing to let go. Also at this point the straggeler MP2 is obviosly sticking around for something unless he's a total calling station.

River play is good, ~11BB in you have to take a stab. Would be interrested to see the results of this hand.

[hemstock]

Im not sure raising KQo UTG is tight. I would just limp with it.
Than like everyone else said, raise the Flop and lead from there.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the preflop play, however if you think that MP2 is not going to cold call 2 bets capping might have been the play according to your read.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought about capping preflop but I was 90% or more sure that MP2 would call 2 more cold so I didn't.

Can people speak more about the rationale for raising the flop over the turn or vice versa? I understand raising the flop might be better to protect my hand against a 5 outer from MP2. Is that correct? I kinda figured that if I was ahead, MP2 most likely had a 3 (or 2 if SB also had an ace) outer and therefore I could probably get him to make a mistake by calling even the flop bet. That's why I called looking for a bad overcall. Then on the turn, I figured I should raise for value against the SB who otherwise might not have gotten all-in, but maybe I should have gone for another overcall from a 3 outer by MP2? Now I'm thinking that perhaps even raising the turn was wrong? Or should I definitely raise here in case MP2 has a 5 outer (or a flush draw?) Needless to say I'm a bit confused in my limit thinking (I play 99% NL). Thanks a lot for the help!

[istewart]

If we can assume MP2 is a bit donkish, which is probably safe, then quite often he's drawing really thin on this flop (undercards a lot of the time, maybe a worse king). But since the pot is getting reasonably big, we'd like him to make a mistake by calling two cold with a 5-outer.

Even bare aces with some weird backdoor draws (A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) are probably worth folding out.

[eviljeff]

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