Would you lay this down

[eyak29]

ok there is about 49 people left in the tournamnet and top 45 get paid. this is the first time i ever thought about laying down kings. a few hands before this i was in a hand with the same guy and he played queens with a min raise before the flop and min raise after and on 4th then checked on river and queens where a over pair and they beat my 99s. just thought a little backround would help. i end up folding my kings and going on to win the tournament and i think the reason was that i layed down here just wanna see what you guys think of the play.

FullTiltPoker Game #160767344: $5 + $0.50 Tournament (959218), Table 4 - 250/500 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:21:45 ET - 2005/07/21
Seat 1: Unclelamo (24,276)
Seat 2: ZRat (29,514)
Seat 3: lopes (53,080)
Seat 4: RedRoxx (11,682)
Seat 5: JohnnySolid (5,645)
Seat 6: DeSaxMan13 (11,335)
Seat 8: eyak29 (20,250)
Seat 9: drgnr (16,080)
Unclelamo antes 50
ZRat antes 50
lopes antes 50
RedRoxx antes 50
JohnnySolid antes 50
DeSaxMan13 antes 50
eyak29 antes 50
drgnr antes 50
JohnnySolid posts the small blind of 250
DeSaxMan13 posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eyak29 [Kd Kh]
eyak29 raises to 1,500
drgnr raises to 2,500
Unclelamo folds
ZRat folds
lopes folds
RedRoxx folds
JohnnySolid folds
DeSaxMan13 folds
eyak29 raises to 5,000
drgnr raises to 16,030, and is all in
eyak29 has 15 seconds left to act
eyak29 folds
Uncalled bet of 11,030 returned to drgnr
drgnr mucks
drgnr wins the pot (11,150)

[Potowame]

So this guy trys to slow play QQ with mini raises, and pushes all-in here and you think KK is no good.

Horrible fold !!!!!!!!!

[Lloyd]

All I can say is that very few of the very best professional players will ever lay down KK pre-flop. The fact that he's willing to make a mini-raise with other than AA means that his range of hands is certainly greater than AA, thus making this an insta-call.

But congrats on winning the tourney.

[eyak29]

so you guys are saying that im thinking backwards? while i should of added he bet the min. bet the whole time at the table so when he did more then that i had to think he had a monster hand but you guys are saying that is the wrong way to think.

[Black Aces 518]

What are the average stacks? If I was below average, there's no way I'm laying down here. You said he played QQ with a minraise preflop, this could be QQ again, JJ, AK, TT, the unlikely KK, or obviously AA. You still have 8 BB if you lose this hand, and have a great stack if you win.

Congrats on the win.

[Black Aces 518]

But did he get resistance with the QQ when he was minbetting? If so, and he didn't raise, that makes the laydown better. He may have been trying to slowplay the QQ. For example, if you just call the 2500 in this hand, he may minbet again with JJ, QQ, AA, etc. You need to know how he treats resistance with the top hands excluding AA to know how to play this hand.

[TheTimeIsUp]

Is that you Hellmuth?!

[Black Aces 518]

What did you get blinded by my NINE bracelets? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I said there's no way I'm laying it down, but if someone doesn't reraise QQ preflop, and then 4 bets allin preflop later, it is instructive, no? I'm not good enough to ever lay down KK online preflop (and have never laid it down live, despite being twice sure I was against AA). I am just trying to find out if this person was bad enough to give a very clear read that he was on AA.

[eyak29]

while i was at the table i thought he was by far the worst at the table. he prob was seeing like 30 percent the flops and was always just limping in and i rarely saw him bet more then the min. bet. i was 99 percent sure he had aces but it seems clear that i made the worng play. this is the first time i ever laided kings down preflop even when i was sure i was against aces. i thought at the time it saved my tourny and i thought i made a good lay down but i guess not.

[Black Aces 518]

If in your heart you're 99% sure, then you should fold. I just have never been that sure. Against a player this bad, I don't know that I'm willing to lay down this much hand, but I wasn't at the table.