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  #1  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:10 PM
synbad13 synbad13 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 27
Default QJs- Poor aggression?

CCing button is loose passive. SB is loose aggressive. Both with VPIP's over 65 in about 40 hands.

Party Poker Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (18.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

Was the turn raise poor?
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  #2  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:11 PM
Piiop Piiop is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 77
Default Re: QJs- Poor aggression?

Yeah, you went crazy here. The first flop raise I like, the cap is too much. The turn raise is bad as well.
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  #3  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:16 PM
pauliewalnuts pauliewalnuts is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 79
Default Re: QJs- Poor aggression?

Yeah, the turn raise is over the top. The flop cap would be ok only if you knew you would get a free card on the turn, but with SB's 3bet, I would assume even with capping there I wasnt likely to get it.
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:17 PM
sy_or_bust sy_or_bust is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
Default Re: QJs- Poor aggression?

The flop cap is OK if your queens and jacks are clean or if you can get a free card. I wouldn't count on either after SB 3-bets, though the probability of either folding Button or forcing him to chase some wacky hand makes it a decent try.

The turn is god awful. What are you doing? SB clearly likes his hand, and you have no interest in Button folding. This raise is really really terrible. Once he 3-bets, you are dead to a full house and can call hoping that Button has a raw 4. When you pair the queen on the river, you can probably fold but calling is reasonable getting almost 21-1. Maybe Button has JJ 5% of the time - who knows?
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  #5  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:59 AM
soweak. soweak. is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Folding Turned Sets...
Posts: 113
Default Re: QJs- Poor aggression?

You cannot honestly be thinking your Queens are good on a pair board after:

1) The SB has shown immense strength on the flop
2) The Button has called 2 bets cold three times, then 3bet the turn when the board paired and then bet the river on a fairly neutral board.

4-bet on flop is spewage, 2-bet on turn is spewage, call on the river is spewage more times than not.
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: QJs- Poor aggression?

I think you have to remember that juicing the pot like that on the flop with a flush draw is only good if there are 4+ players you only had 3 and also you didn't have the nut flush draw. Maybe coulda raised for free card but against aggressive players I wouldn't.

To me, The turn raise seems crazy.

And you are probably beat 95% of the time on the river, so I would still call with such a big pot and expect to lose.
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