Announcing "Answered" Prayers Both Stupid and Disgusting

[jakethebake]

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"As I have said several times, I would become an instant believer, if I thought even one real miracle has ever occurred. As would anyone with half a brain."

But then there would be no reason for faith, and faith is a very important part of Christianity.

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Dear, God. Please make him stop. Please make him stop. Please make him stop....

[Jcrew]

Yes, it may be. You missed the point though. The example was contrived to ask the question how many coincidences must occur for a reasonable logical person to call it a miracle. Since David seems to merit himself as such a person, I would like to hear his opinion on the matter.

[David Sklansky]

"You've also said that if anything that looked like a real miracle ocurred it was just a matter of time until science explained it away, um, er, I mean gave a rational explanation"

I never said that. You have me confused with maurile. In fact I have said close to the opposite. Because I am more skeptical than most scientists about the possibility of explaining consciousness.

[PLOlover]

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Those prayers lead to renewed belief that God and good are on your side and the devil and evil belong to the Other.

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It specifically says in the bible that part of the contract between god and man is that if you worship him, your enemies will become his enemies.

[laurentia]

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The reasons such statements are disgusting, especially when life and death is involved, is because of the tremendous insensitivety it shows toward many others.

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I agree. Too much appeasement goes on between high IQ people and low IQ people. High IQ people are expected to excuse low IQ people for shítting on others because "they can't help it", or "didn't mean it" etc. while it is impossible to have situations go the other way because the low IQ people are simply incapable of understanding how high IQ people think.

To me it's very surprising that high IQ people don't band together and wrest away the power from the masses, creating an elitist society in which the higher your IQ the more rights you have. It's as though they enjoy being subservient and having their interests suppressed.

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I agree. Except for the fact that in Sklansky's example the "shitting on others" happens between low IQ people and real elitists don't worry about that.

[Josh W]

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I see. So God decides who gets the one percent shot. But he doesn't use his powers to give it to more than one percent (or whatever the mathematical probability might be). Even though they all prayed.

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See, this actually is a very plausible possibiliity. God does not want Earth to be perfect. That's what heaven is for. So, instead of giving everybody everything they desire, God gives it to somebody who will praise His name.

Too many people when trying to disprove religions point out how imperfect life on Earth is. They fail to realize that that is part of the plan.

Josh

[dragon14]

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The reasons such statements are disgusting, especially when life and death is involved, is because of the tremendous insensitivity it shows toward many others. Namely those who have NOT had their prayers answered. What do you think would have gone through the mind of the several mothers who have had to endure the disappearance followed by death of one of their little children if they had been listening to that ladies speech? I bet most of them prayed just as hard. If they are to believe her speech they must conclude that they were not as worthy in God's eyes. Don't they have enough to deal with? And that lady made her speech very shortly after a number of high profile child killings so she should have realized all this.

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The lady made her speech while feeling overjoyed that her son had been found alive. After four days it's normal to have doubts that he would be found alive and he was. It's probably a bit of wishful thinking for her to think that praying for her son was going to help him but if it helped her cope with the situation I don't see the problem.

When someone I know is seriously ill and someone remarks that they are praying for them it strikes me as a warm gesture although I'm more of a rational than religious person.

If her son had not been found alive both parents would have spent a lot of time wondering if they could have done something to prevent it. These thoughts would probably have verged from the fairly rational "If he hadn't gone on that trip, he'd still be here today" to the more irrational "God intended for this to happen to strengthen our faith".

If faith is a big part of someone's life it's natural to couch life's hardships in terms of your religion. If science is the big part of your life perhaps you can look at everything in terms of numbers. If my son were lost I'd prefer someone to say "I'm praying for him, we're going to find him alive" than for a mathematician to say "the odds of him surviving four days in the woods all alone are 15%".

People caring about and trying to show support however irrational for their loved ones strikes me as more positive than negative.

[Zeno]

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If my son were lost I'd prefer someone to say "I'm praying for him, we're going to find him alive" than for a mathematician to say "the odds of him surviving four days in the woods all alone are 15%".


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This is nonsense. I would much rather have a competent search and rescue team that would take a systemic and rational approach to finding my son that would have the best probability of success, than have 1.2 billion Christians or 1.2 billion Muslins praying that he will survive and be found. Nor would I ask for any help in finding my son from psychics or Astrologers.

-Zeno

[dragon14]

You seem to be misrepresenting my post. Please read it again. There is no endorsement of the power of prayer or of the power of psychics or astrologers.

I think Sklansky is overly aggressive in insulting a woman who just found out her son was alive after having been missing for four days.

I'm referring to the fact that saying you're praying for someone is a kind gesture that implies a person is in your thoughts and you understand that they are going through tough times. I state that this is preferable to cold, rational thought.

I'm referring to one on one gestures, not to what the best way of locating someone is.

[Zeno]

The thread is long with many responses and I apologize if I was mistaken and/or misinterpreted what your real intent was. It appeared to me that you denigrated ‘mathematics’ wholesale, when employing mathematical principles could certainly help having the best chances of finding a lost person.

A simple misunderstanding in the mix of all the topics.

I'm getting old. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

-Zeno