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#51
07-20-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Definently positive that Lee flipped over his cards.. I remember him doing it, and Harman wasn't even paying attention for a bit (she was playing with her chips or something), and then she finally looked up and saw it and said, "Trip Jacks" and nodded her head in a matter of fact manner. [/ QUOTE ] You are definitely wrong. I have it taped on DVR and just went back to double-check. First, Lee never actually flips his cards and in any case, Jen calls "trip jacks" long before he would have even had a chance to flip his cards. Moot point though, as other people have mentioned, if she actually HAD a good read she wouldn't have bet 100k on the turn, just like she would have pushed in (or at least raised) with AK on the previous hand when she "claimed" Lee and Thaler were weak. People talk all the time at tables and if you guess enough, you will eventually be right some of the time. Again, she's a good enough player that she would GO with her read if she actually had a good one. Oh and i noticed people conveniently forget that Jen was all-in against Lee with Q7 vs Q9 on the hand right before the QQ vs 910 and sucked out on him. [/ QUOTE ] Might want to double-check that Tivo, skipper. I believe from the camera-angle at the time she insta-folds when Lee merely says raise, you see him flip over his jacks towards the dealer but she's not looking in that direction. When they switch to a close-up of her face, she then looks over, sort of nods and says trip jacks. 
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#53
07-20-2005, 04:38 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Definently positive that Lee flipped over his cards.. I remember him doing it, and Harman wasn't even paying attention for a bit (she was playing with her chips or something), and then she finally looked up and saw it and said, "Trip Jacks" and nodded her head in a matter of fact manner. [/ QUOTE ] You are definitely wrong. I have it taped on DVR and just went back to double-check. First, Lee never actually flips his cards and in any case, Jen calls "trip jacks" long before he would have even had a chance to flip his cards. Moot point though, as other people have mentioned, if she actually HAD a good read she wouldn't have bet 100k on the turn, just like she would have pushed in (or at least raised) with AK on the previous hand when she "claimed" Lee and Thaler were weak. People talk all the time at tables and if you guess enough, you will eventually be right some of the time. Again, she's a good enough player that she would GO with her read if she actually had a good one. Oh and i noticed people conveniently forget that Jen was all-in against Lee with Q7 vs Q9 on the hand right before the QQ vs 910 and sucked out on him. [/ QUOTE ] Might want to double-check that Tivo, skipper. I believe from the camera-angle at the time she insta-folds when Lee merely says raise, you see him flip over his jacks towards the dealer but she's not looking in that direction. When they switch to a close-up of her face, she then looks over, sort of nods and says trip jacks. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps you are watching some different airing of it then. I just watched out for the 10th time and when she says "trip jacks", he absolutely has not turned his cards over yet.
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#55
07-20-2005, 04:50 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Definently positive that Lee flipped over his cards.. I remember him doing it, and Harman wasn't even paying attention for a bit (she was playing with her chips or something), and then she finally looked up and saw it and said, "Trip Jacks" and nodded her head in a matter of fact manner. [/ QUOTE ] You are definitely wrong. I have it taped on DVR and just went back to double-check. First, Lee never actually flips his cards and in any case, Jen calls "trip jacks" long before he would have even had a chance to flip his cards. Moot point though, as other people have mentioned, if she actually HAD a good read she wouldn't have bet 100k on the turn, just like she would have pushed in (or at least raised) with AK on the previous hand when she "claimed" Lee and Thaler were weak. People talk all the time at tables and if you guess enough, you will eventually be right some of the time. Again, she's a good enough player that she would GO with her read if she actually had a good one. Oh and i noticed people conveniently forget that Jen was all-in against Lee with Q7 vs Q9 on the hand right before the QQ vs 910 and sucked out on him. [/ QUOTE ] Might want to double-check that Tivo, skipper. I believe from the camera-angle at the time she insta-folds when Lee merely says raise, you see him flip over his jacks towards the dealer but she's not looking in that direction. When they switch to a close-up of her face, she then looks over, sort of nods and says trip jacks. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps you are watching some different airing of it then. I just watched out for the 10th time and when she says "trip jacks", he absolutely has not turned his cards over yet. [/ QUOTE ] Are you sure that when the camera cuts away he didn't do it? That was my assumption - yesterday I commented on this read and someone corrected me, and looking back I think her reaction hinted towards him having flipped them over.
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#56
07-20-2005, 05:48 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
I normally don't try and talk about picking up tells on players on TV, but there was a t least one point where Lee was giving off a text book tell.
In the KT vs 99 hand against Bellande, when his T hit the turn and Bellande was thinking about calling Lee made a noticable glance at his chips ... on the river after his bet, the camera was focused on Bellande deliberating a call and Lee again made the chip glance for half a sec. I don't know if I would have picked up on it without the hole cards, but I thought it was crystal clear he had a big hand and would have certainly been able to lay down the 99 if I were JR.
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#57
07-20-2005, 06:14 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
Your analysis is limited by results-oriented thinking.
Besides, Thaler had Ace high. That's the type of hand that will call a bluff.
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#58
07-20-2005, 06:16 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of te
[ QUOTE ]
The only way for Lee to win something on the river there is to induce a bluff. [/ QUOTE ] Can you think of any hands that call the turn and bet the river when checked to, but don't call a river bet? I don't think there are very many.
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#59
07-20-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
Funny, I just thought she jumped up cause she had a tough decision to make with her AK now that Gabe (one of the three best players at the table) had made the big re-raise and the final table was still in the early going.
Of course that would mean she was throwing off her own tell (I don't have a monster), so I may be totally wrong too.
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#60
07-20-2005, 06:36 PM
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Re: Tonight WSOP Circuit tourney? Did everybody read caro\'s boof of tells?
[ QUOTE ]
Hand on the cards.. Almost to the point where you are ready to flip them over. When a person moves all-in, and they don't move their hand from there cards.. that is a HUGE tell. I know, because I have it myself.. I do this same exact thing when I don't want to be called. I was stunned to see Ivey doing this. I highly doubt it was a "reverse-ploy", because most of the table was very unsophisticated, including J.R. Bellande. [/ QUOTE ] You are way off. He protected his cards because he was in the 10 seat, had no chips left to put on top of cards, and didn't want the dealer to sweep them into the muck. But good job, another week or two and you'll be better than the best player in the world! Tool.
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