1st 2/4 hand - Page 2

brooklynjoe · #11 07-19-2005, 05:14 PM

I agree that cold-callers are in general worrisome and that if we're behind already we have little chance of improving, but unless he's got a set and is putting us specifically on top pair how can he let us draw so cheaply?

lange101 · #12 07-19-2005, 05:30 PM

When I first read this I really didn't like it. Parts of it I still don't like but there are other parts that don't seem that bad. The more I read the betting the less I think you are beat. I feel like the button is playing short stacked and is going all in on this hand no matter what. I feel like the button is a pretty big fish if he is playing this short stacked at 2/4 and I think that if he really hit that flop he is reraising stronger on the flop or pushing. I really wouldn't be surprised if he had AK. The I might even put the BB on a flush draw and that was a bluff on the river. I don't know, I could be way off on this read here, but I coul easily see you winning this hand.

That being said, fold KQo in early position. I also think that I definitely would not have called this down the way you did but, like I said, i could easily see you winning this hand. How did it end up?

TheWorstPlayer · #13 07-19-2005, 05:44 PM

Because we bet the flop with zero folding equity in the worst position to do so. If I were BB I would read us for a set. Certainly not a draw.

#14 07-19-2005, 05:52 PM

That is a teeny weeeny bit too frisky with TPGK [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

magicmntn · #15 07-19-2005, 06:11 PM

First, thank you all for the responses. I think the general consensus is I screwed the pooch on this one. My thinking was the button was pushing with any 2 at that point. He raised preflop, but it was just a minraise and he couldn't hurt me for more than the $17 I had to call on the flop. So that left the BB. His smooth call scared me. But my thinking was he didn't have a monster because my bet would worry him a little. If I had AK of spades I would lead oout the same way. Giving me a free card to my draw could be very expensive for him. So that left him with a queen in my opinion. I just wasn't sure of the kicker. The turn was a blank. Again, if he put me on a draw he's not checking to me here, because I would obviously take the free card to the river. I went with my instinct that he had a queen and potted the turn. I think this is where everyone thinks I went wrong, and this is in fact the decision that made me post the hand. If he has AQ, I am dead. If he has a set I am dead. Against anything else I am in good shape. Once he pushed I wasn't so sure again, but I felt committed at that point.

Anyway the resutls are as follows:

Button has AK, no pair
I have KQ, pair of Queens with K kicker
SB has Q5, pair of Queens with 5 kicker

MHIG, but everyone thinks my thinking was way off. I really need to think about this some more

iceman5 · #16 07-19-2005, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First, thank you all for the responses. I think the general consensus is I screwed the pooch on this one. My thinking was the button was pushing with any 2 at that point. He raised preflop, but it was just a minraise and he couldn't hurt me for more than the $17 I had to call on the flop. So that left the BB. His smooth call scared me. But my thinking was he didn't have a monster because my bet would worry him a little. If I had AK of spades I would lead oout the same way. Giving me a free card to my draw could be very expensive for him. So that left him with a queen in my opinion. I just wasn't sure of the kicker. The turn was a blank. Again, if he put me on a draw he's not checking to me here, because I would obviously take the free card to the river. I went with my instinct that he had a queen and potted the turn. I think this is where everyone thinks I went wrong, and this is in fact the decision that made me post the hand. If he has AQ, I am dead. If he has a set I am dead. Against anything else I am in good shape. Once he pushed I wasn't so sure again, but I felt committed at that point.

Anyway the resutls are as follows:

Button has AK, no pair
I have KQ, pair of Queens with K kicker
SB has Q5, pair of Queens with 5 kicker

MHIG, but everyone thinks my thinking was way off. I really need to think about this some more

[/ QUOTE ]

You won a big pot despite your mistakes because youre opponents were morons.

Dont let the results affect how you play next time because you will lose alot of money if you played this hand this same way 100 times.

Take the money you won and enjoy it. Take the advice you got and dont make these mistakes again. Win /Win

TheWorstPlayer · #17 07-19-2005, 06:34 PM

Well, your game selection is excellent, at least. As soah very correctly pointed out recently that is the biggest ingredient in playing winning poker. Not good poker, though. If you had AsKs you shouldn't pot the flop. You're not getting any folds. And you have nothing to protect. You are basically semi-bluffing a dry side pot since you know that BN is going to push. You should check, let BN push, and then you get to see BB's action before you have to act. You have the best relative position and by betting the flop you are essentially giving it up.

Once you bet the flop in front of the short-stacked preflop raiser, I (as BB) would be very confident that you, in fact, did NOT have a draw. So I would smooth call a set to try to keep you in the hand drawing near dead with what I presume to be top pair or an overpair. Then, since you are not drawing, there is no point in betting the turn either. I want to sucker you in with my set. No point in betting into the dry side pot where you will know I have a big hand (since there is no reason to bluff an empty side pot) and you will be more likely to lay down. I should check to you and hope that you will 'protect' your hand from MY potential draw. Then when you bet, you are committed and I can push. BB happens to suck. But his play is exactly what I would do with a set here.

TrailofTears · #18 07-19-2005, 07:05 PM

You do know that there are stakes between .25/.50 and 2/4, don't you?

Also, my guess is this hand doesn't get posted if you lose to AQ or a set of threes. Then it would just be an obvious case of TPGK being overplayed (which it still is.)

-T

magicmntn · #19 07-19-2005, 08:29 PM

Actually the hand was getting posted no matter what. I suspected I overplayed it. That was why I posted it. Everyone else confirmed this. While I am happy with the result, I like to learn from my winning hands as well as my losing hands. I definitely learned what not to do next time, well unless I happen to be in a game with the SB moron again, but I digress. Thank you all again for your input