3 bet turn?

macdaddy991 · #1 07-19-2005, 03:01 AM

SB relitavely new, no real read, How much should I worry about reverse domination?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero?

TwoShedsJackson · #2 07-19-2005, 03:11 AM

With no read I call the turn and call a bet on the river, unless it's a K.

macdaddy991 · #3 07-19-2005, 03:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
With no read I call the turn and call a bet on the river, unless it's a K.

[/ QUOTE ]

elaborate

Disconnected · #4 07-19-2005, 03:17 AM

I'd call the raise, and a bet on the river. I'd bet it if checked to, in case SB is playing a weaker Ace.

Whether you're reverse dominated or SB is slow-playing a set or two pair on the flop, I think you have to slow down when an unknown check-raises the sole aggressor so far, at least until you see what that check-raise means. The flop is ragged, so either it connected with him, or he wanted to give his Ace a chance to pair up. My take is that the former is more likely against an unknown who is check raising.

Edit to add: Also, it could be a total bluff. If that's the case, you want him to try it again on the river, so just call the raise.

TwoShedsJackson · #5 07-19-2005, 03:25 AM

A check raise on the turn from your average Party player means he has an Ace, or he could be hoping you are scared of the Ace and decides to bluff, possibly holding two diamonds. With no read you're not sure which it's likely to be yet, and as the pot isn't particularly big I wouldn't bother going nuts.

On the other hand you have TPTK heads up so it's worth calling down. Apart from your chance of winning, you get to see what he checkraised you on the turn with, which will be useful in future hands.

If the river's a non-diamond King you can go nuts, if he checkraised you with QJ on that turn then he's clearly insane, which is good to know [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If it's the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I'd still raise and call a 3 bet.

(edit) Actually I guess I phrased my first reply badly, in case you think I meant I wouldn't call a bet on the river if it was a K - I was trying to say I'd raise, not fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (/fold)

ClintD · #6 07-19-2005, 03:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If it's the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I'd still raise and call a 3 bet.

(

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your analysis overall. Another 3 bet would scare me for sure. I dont feel it would be an automatic call. Is this just the size of the pot talking?

JoshuaD · #7 07-19-2005, 04:38 AM

I call the turn and raise the river. I want to 3-bet this turn, but I don't want him to cap. When you break it across streets like this, it cows 2pair into calling instead of 3-betting.

toss · #8 07-19-2005, 05:49 AM

I like this advice if there were two less players at the table.

MrEngenic · #9 07-19-2005, 05:59 AM

You should worry, but you shouldnt 3-bet or fold, Just call down. Even if you are dominated by two pair you have 9 outs.

MrEngenic · #10 07-19-2005, 07:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I call the turn and raise the river. I want to 3-bet this turn, but I don't want him to cap. When you break it across streets like this, it cows 2pair into calling instead of 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are too aggressive. Do you play a lot of shorthanded? What hand do you put opponent on? I think folding the turn is closer than 3 betting or raisig river vs some opponents! Both are out of question of course...