2/4, flopped straight, paired turn, huge pot

Andrew Smith · #1 07-18-2005, 10:30 PM

First time I have started a thread. Also first time posting in SS. I have been posting in the microlimits for a little while. I wasn't sure what to do on the turn in this hand. The pot was huge so it makes a fold tough. BB and the button are loose passive and UTG+1 is a TAG.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

My preflop call here is a little loose, but the table is quite passive preflop, so I didn't think it was that bad.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

I didn't raise the flop initially because I didn't want to push the other two guys out since I flopped a straight. Maybe this was a mistake.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero ???

Do I call this 3-bet? The pot is enormous, but my chances here seem dismal at best. Thanks.

DemonDeac · #2 07-18-2005, 10:37 PM

im folding this preflop. there arent enough limpers to make this a +EV play

flop im raising right away as ur vulnerable to a whole lot of draws (flush, better straights, etc.)

gotta call down with huge pot though. i call saying that party poker is rigged

GMan42 · #3 07-18-2005, 10:54 PM

Ugh. Call down and hope you're against a flush draw, an A9, and maybe some big overpair that one of them decided to slowplay despite the drawy board. With 3 other players in the pot, though, and your reads on them, this looks bad. I might find a fold here depending on my gut feeling.

Dan Rutter · #4 07-18-2005, 11:38 PM

Fold PF.

Raise UTG+1s bet on the flop. You have the nuts right now, but you do not want to give out cheap cards with your hand, you are very vulnerable to being overtaken.

The Turn does not look good for you after the BB check-raises for the second time in the hand. That is the thing that would worry me a lot. I doubt he check-raises two bets on the flop with just a pair of 9s. Unless he is a real moran. When he CRs on the turn that is not good. This is a tough fold but I think it might be correct. Not only may you be dead right now, there is a strong possiblity you will be putting four bets in the river without have a strong feeling one way or the other if you are ahead or behind in the hand. I would say with the BBs checkraise for the second time you are more likely to be dead though.

ArturiusX · #5 07-19-2005, 12:46 AM

Itll surely be capped behind you. Your straight is not the nuts, a lot of cards can hurt you.

I think I fold unless these guys are big lags. If any of them are sane I fold.

ThomasPHoolery · #6 07-19-2005, 03:11 AM

Having two raisers in the hand with you makes this an easy fold on the turn I think. if it's heads up at this point, or one of the players has shown passivity, it's a different story, but both players clearly like their hands. There is a strong chance it gets capped on the turn and river, which is 8 BB. Granted the pot may be around 30 BB at that point, but you're not ever going to be ahead in that case. Fold, curse, and strongly consider folding 67s pre-flop next time. If they show down a hand worse than yours in the big pot, just keep it in mind and for later hands, and relentlessly charge them when you have the better of it.

TomBrooks · #7 07-19-2005, 03:12 AM

FLOP: Raise the first time it gets to you. There are flush and higher straight possibilities on this board. The hand would have played differently then and if BB 3bet we could almost surely put him on two pair or a set.

Notorious G.O.B. · #8 07-19-2005, 04:08 AM

I for one think your smooth call on the flop is okay. Gutshots aren't priced in anyway, OESD probably won't fold, and no one with two pair/set/flushdraw is going anywhere. Sure you want to charge the draws, but you can charge them later. Fold preflop. Fold the turn, I'm afraid.

Nick C · #9 07-19-2005, 04:32 AM

Jeez. Everyone has a monster, I guess. You wouldn't think so many of those would be available.

BB seems to absolutely love his hand, which I think is probably the same as yours or a boat. I would lean toward saying he has a boat, since he suddenly checked again on the turn (people do that sometimes when they improve), but two people did raise after he checkraised the flop, so he could've just been planning to checkraise again on the turn anyway, even before seeing what fell.

UTG+1 (the TAG) is acting like he's on a flush draw, I think, that he pumped on the flop and is now continuing to chase on the turn. (It may even be a straight-flush draw.)

I think Button either flopped a set and slowplayed or turned trips. If it's trips, you'd think BB's turn check/3-bet would slow him down.

You're getting about 20:2, you can't improve, and you may have already lost. Even if you're beating UTG+1 and Button, and UTG+1 doesn't make his flush and Button doesn't fill up, I think most likely you're just chopping with (or losing to) BB, and, if that's the case, your 20:2 is really 10:2.

Ugh. One advantage of playing against loose-passives is that decisions like this don't come up very often.

I suppose I'd probably call, but I'm not very happy about it, and I'm not necessarily seeing a showdown anyway.

Earlier, I would fold preflop.

Then, on the flop, I would probably raise (flopped straights are pretty much always vulnerable). But I wouldn't be so happy about where the bet came from, in terms of relative position. And, for what it's worth, in this hand I don't think raising would have made much difference, really. Most likely BB would have check/3-bet, UTG+1 would have capped, and the turn action would be the same.

Actually, the fact that there's all this turn action despite your very scary flop call/cap is a bad sign -- except that I'm not sure the loose-passive players who are still raising would pick up on exactly how the betting sequence went and what it might represent.