Opening in LP vs. Playing Short Handed

[Philuva]

Do you treat the situation where it is folded to you in the CO in a 10 handed game the same as when you are UTG in a 4 handed game? Why or why not?

I have noticed while positionally you are the same, the 3 players remaining to act in the shorthanded game will play much looser than the 3 players remaining to act in the 10-handed game.

Also, does the fact that 6 players have already folded to you in the 10 handed game change your starting hand requirments because you know they most likely folded low cards?

[Ginogino]

Phil:
My understanding of the basic math is that there is very little difference between being folded to in the cutoff in a 10-player game and being UTG in a 4-player game.

In practice, though, there is a difference in the way the two games play (a bigger difference at lower limits which gets smaller as the stakes get higher/players get better). This is mostly a result of players who don't like shorthanded poker and who don't make sufficient adjustments for shorthanded-ness. Because they don't appreciate enough the difference the reduced number of opponents makes, they wait for stronger hands than necessary to open-raise with, and/or they play passively when they should be aggressive. They also often play the wrong hands (middle suited connectors versus two broadway cards, for instance). This affects the play of everyone else.

At the limits at which I usually play, though, you don't have to worry about getting folded to in the cutoff very much.

Gino

[Louie Landale]

If memory serves I did some math a few years ago and concluded that if everyone is "playing by the book" then 7 players folding will increase the chances of a remaining player having an Ace by only 10%. Thus, the "bunching factor" isn't very relevant. Loose players folder, especially those that will play any Ace, increases the chances of an opponent having an Ace by quite a bit.

Anyway, "yes": its the number of players remaining the matters, very little on how many have folded. 4 handed UTG CO is the same as 10 handed CO after 7 players folded.

But you are also correct that players actually play differently making it much harder to steal in short handed games. Actually, they play too tight in the blinds against late position steals in a full game and usually end up playing more realistically in short handed games.

- Louie

[beetman]

My experience and simulations agree with your findings that clumping is not terribly significant. Another factor is that even mediocre Hold'em players often fold crappy offsuit aces. In early position I only play about 30% of the hands that contain an ace, and I'm not that tight.

However, in Omaha/8 the clumping factor is a lot more significant.