raise this flop?

El Tigre · #1 07-17-2005, 08:30 PM

I was hoping these guys/girls would catch up on the turn/river, so I didn't raise the flop. Too weak?

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

cold_cash · #2 07-17-2005, 08:37 PM

I would bet the flop.

Not raising once you've checked is okay, but I think you should bet it yourself the first time around.

Why miss bets? They're not all folding.

Nick C · #3 07-17-2005, 08:42 PM

I would just lead the flop. The king will scare anyone who doesn't have one, it's true (and only one other person can have one), but people are expecting you to bet, and I don't think they'll assume the flop hit you just because you do bet.

I see this play (raising preflop and then checking a flopped set) quite often when I'm at the tables. I think usually it's not such a good idea, partly because you'll represent the monster you actually have whenever you do wake up (especially if you spring to life with a checkraise).

In this instance, I think the slowplay makes more sense than slowplays I often see, because there's a good chance this flop didn't hit anyone. And I think avoiding a checkraise, which would kind of announce that you were trapping, was probably best.

From the looks of it, MP2 had a king, and UTG+1 caught trip sixes on the river, and the hand worked out nicely for you.

Gene2x · #4 07-17-2005, 09:09 PM

I guess it depends on what the other players expect you to do. If they have seen you check the flop when you miss, call a single bet on the flop, and then fold to a turn bet if you don't hit- I'd let them think they could take the pot from me that way and check-raise the turn.

If however, they've seen you always follow-up a pre-flop bet with a bet on the flop, that's what I'd do. The guy who hit something or maybe got a straight draw will then likely raise for information or a free turn card. I'd just call the flop raise then check-raise the turn. If the person has 56, well, then you're just going to have to pay him off.

If the person checks behind you on the turn but then hits his trips on the river, he's going to take your turn check as weakness or a single pair and cap the betting with you on the river.

Anyway, I think it all depends on your read of the players and how they see you that will guide your hand to maximizing the pot.

Gene2x · #5 07-17-2005, 10:30 PM

I meant if the player had 45- then you'd just have to pay him off.

Harv72b · #6 07-17-2005, 10:45 PM

The point's been made already, but I wanted to stress it--if you're typically following up your PFRs with a hand like AQ on this flop, then you have to bet the flop this time as well; especially after you raised out of the BB. You cannot be assured that anyone else will bet it for you, and the texture of this flop makes it pretty unlikely that anyone will turn a second-best hand that will go to war with you (unless they would have at least called on the flop, anyway).

Again, it worked out pretty well this time, but if UTG+1 does have a 6 and MP2 does have the case K, then both would have called a flop bet and MP2 might have raised you, and both would probably play the river the same way regardless.