Donk-raised on the turn

Aaron W. · #1 07-16-2005, 12:38 PM

Villain is noted as "can be aggressive". He's a little passive preflop and almost tight (about 40 VPIP), but it looks like he's been picking up a couple pots by betting postflop on both ragged and scary boards.

This is the first time we tangled.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero...

@bsolute_luck · #2 07-16-2005, 12:39 PM

i'd call him. see what comes on the river.

mmmmmbrother · #3 07-16-2005, 12:46 PM

from the read im for sure calling down. he might have caught a jack but who cares. im sure your good more than 1 in 7

Dieter01 · #4 07-16-2005, 12:50 PM

I would call. You have sufficient outs.

If the river doesn't hit you, and you check, he will bet no matter what he has. I still think you should fold. I don't think you will be good here 1 in 8 times, raising that turn with nothing against a pre-flop raiser is a pretty bold move.

If your read tells you there is a very high chance he would make a move on you I would raise the turn and check the river.

Entity · #5 07-16-2005, 12:58 PM

I usually fold here. Turn semibluff raises aren't all that common (unless you've seen such a raise, which you didn't mention) and you don't have enough outs to continue against a Jack, and you'll be dead a certain portion of the time -- and the pot is small.

Rob

Saint_D · #6 07-16-2005, 01:00 PM

In general: Check/fold the flop. Fold the turn.

This is exactly why I hate overcards. He could be stop and go with a set of 2's. He could be on a J or a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (or even [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) flush draw. This is why overcards are considered to be about 1.5 outs each. That and that's what SSHE says. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You needed 7.0:1 to call the turn flop. You were getting 6:1. With fold equity against one player, betting out here is at least defendable.

On the turn you have 3 outs and the pot is laying you 8:1. You need 14.3:1 to call with 3 outs and 1 to come. Fold.

Entity · #7 07-16-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In general: Check/fold the flop. Fold the turn.

This is exactly why I hate overcards. He could be stop and go with a set of 2's. He could be on a J or a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (or even [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) flush draw. This is why overcards are considered to be about 1.5 outs each. That and that's what SSHE says. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You needed 7.0:1 to call the turn flop. You were getting 6:1. With fold equity against one player, betting out here is at least defendable.

On the turn you have 3 outs and the pot is laying you 8:1. You need 14.3:1 to call with 3 outs and 1 to come. Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-folding the flop SUCKS.

There are situations where I'd call this turn raise and check-call the river UI, but generally I just fold.

Rob

Aaron W. · #8 07-16-2005, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is noted as "can be aggressive". He's a little passive preflop and almost tight (about 40 VPIP), but it looks like he's been picking up a couple pots by betting postflop on both ragged and scary boards.

This is the first time we tangled.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if...

Turn: (3.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero...

or...

Turn: (3.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero...

or...

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero...

or...

Turn: (3.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero...

@bsolute_luck · #9 07-16-2005, 01:11 PM

i thought about folding the turn, but isn't the size of the pot always going to be small HU?

Entity · #10 07-16-2005, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i thought about folding the turn, but isn't the size of the pot always going to be small HU?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the pot will always be small HU. But you still have to consider it when making these decisions, and unless villain is "very overaggressive with marginal hands and likes to make moves" rather than "can be aggressive," you're just not going to see a hand you have enough outs to continue with on the average.

Rob