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#11
07-15-2005, 02:43 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, you should raise here. First, to get information....The raise will let you know where he's at. [/ QUOTE ] So you raise and Villain calls. Can you tell me if you're ahead or behind now? 
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#12
07-15-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i normally raise the flop here. [/ QUOTE ] For what reasons? [/ QUOTE ] primarily because i can fold to later aggresion if i don't improve and i want to get to showdown chealy. a typical player will not 3-bet the flop. i'm not 100% happy with the line, though. what do you suggest?
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#13
07-15-2005, 02:49 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree, you should raise here. First, to get information....The raise will let you know where he's at. [/ QUOTE ] So you raise and Villain calls. Can you tell me if you're ahead or behind now? [/ QUOTE ] I think the raise is for a free card. If UTG is a decent player, he'll 3-bet with a medium pp. Otherwise, he'll just call with overcards. But this is low limit, so I don't think the raise gives much information about the guy's hand since he doesn't think in poker logic.
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#15
07-15-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
Very likely you're behind with AK. You would fold IF you didn't have outs.
But, you DO have outs. And with a call from the villain, I say all 10. It's impossible to put him on anything better than what you can get, especially given this medium sized pot. If I were in the described situation - with 5.7 BB at the start - I would bet after a check and call a bet. I think that given the action, he may fold after he checks and you bet, and if he doesn't you can hit one of your outs. If you do, you're very likely to have the best hand. If you miss, the showdown will likely be free.
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#16
07-15-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
Many of you are saying that the over cards are not worth 3 each, maybe only 1.5. I'm just thinking now that all 3 kings might be worth almost 1 each, since I'll beat any Ace rag when a king hits and it makes no one a str8. The 3 aces must be better than half each since I got a king kicker against an Ace rag. But then I'm behind if he has a 3. The one card str8, maybe less than 2 outs since it's the ass end, and the possiblity of splitting with an ace rag when a 3 hits. So I'm coming up with around 6 to 7 outs. In the future I'll probably call the turn fold the flop, depending on reads of course. Thanks for all the input.
Btw, what the hell is grunching?
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#17
07-15-2005, 04:42 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
[ QUOTE ]
Very likely you're behind with AK. You would fold IF you didn't have outs. But, you DO have outs. And with a call from the villain, I say all 10. It's impossible to put him on anything better than what you can get, especially given this medium sized pot. If I were in the described situation - with 5.7 BB at the start - I would bet after a check and call a bet. I think that given the action, he may fold after he checks and you bet, and if he doesn't you can hit one of your outs. If you do, you're very likely to have the best hand. If you miss, the showdown will likely be free. [/ QUOTE ] We need to discount our outs, because: 1) Villain could have you reverse dominated with A5/K5/A4/K4 etc. 2) Villain could have a 6 here, making our trey "outs" pretty expensive for us if we hit one. 3) Even if we hit on the turn, there's many possible redraws for the river. Regardless, IMO we still have the odds to play on after discounting.
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#19
07-15-2005, 05:46 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
You're correct, but there is something more I'd like to say about this. It seems difficult to me to account for all that when you're in the moment online. So, I think a better way to approach this, which was suggested by another poster in this thread, is to look at your pot odds and then decide if you have the outs required. That seems like it would help with a complicated board. Maybe this one is not that complicated, but then again I haven't been playing that long. Anyone think this approach is good or bad?
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#20
07-15-2005, 05:54 PM
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Re: do I have enough outs to call?
Our gut shot is a 1 card ass end, we are subject to possible reverse domination or a made straight, and our ace will make 4 to the straight as well, so if he has 53 or whatever we'll lose if we hit our ace.
Plus, even if no one has a six, if we are reverse dominated with Ace Rag we are splitting the pot. We have 6 outs here and enough to see the turn. Don't raise for information unless it is first and foremost a value bet. 90% of the time the only info you'll pick up is that LPs like to call with the best hand.
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