Position

[Rvr_B_Good]

I'm trying to understand the concept of position and how to play position. As I understand it, "having position" on someone means being the last to act. Now I understand how that can be good but I've also seen situations where being first to act can be more profitable.

Also, I've read articles where pros say they often just play their position and not their cards. This is confusing. Does that mean they only play when they are on the button or close to it?

I know there is no one way to do things in poker but is there some reference or can some folks share their views on the details of position play?

[R_Ellender]

For a good explanation on position, check out Theory of Poker... it has a good chapter on the subject.

[Rvr_B_Good]

[ QUOTE ]
For a good explanation on position, check out Theory of Poker... it has a good chapter on the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

He only really uses one hold'em example and I was looking for a source that focuses on that, especially tournament play.

would you say the ideas are the same from game to game? anything about hold'em specifically that is different from the other examples?

[BeerMoney]

You will understand position more as you play more.

[R_Ellender]

The ideas are pretty much the same when it comes to being in early, middle, or late position, particularly in games where position is fixed like Omaha or Hold'em. When you read the chapter, imagine how the ideas presented affect your game of choice.

As an example, you wouldn't want to raise a hand like A7s from UTG in a tournament because there are several players behind you who may have stronger hands than yours. Let's say you get two calls and the flop comes AJT rainbow... what do you do? Lead out with your weak ace? You can't give a free card, because anyone with a king or queen in the hole will have a free shot at a straight. And what kinds of hands could your opponents call your raise with... AK or AQ? TT? So if you get called on the flop, what do you do on the turn if a 2 comes? Do you lead out again on the turn, or check and show weakness, allowing someone with a hand like 88 or KJ to bluff you out? If you get raised on the flop, do you call?

Reading TOP's position section should give you a good idea of how position operates in the game. As you can see from the above, your at a disadvantage with a marginal hand in first position, and the disadvantages and advantages of first position and all positions are in the book.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
You will understand position more as you play more.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so true.

Still, here's an example for you. It is read based, though.

Assume that your opponent is weak tight and plays straight forward for this hand.

Villain raises UTG in a full game and it's folded to you in the cutoff. You know the blinds are tight, so you reraise to buy the button and fold the blinds. UTG just calls.

Since you know UTG to be a straight forward player, you know that he would only raise from UTG with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AKs, and AQs.

You also know that he would have capped it if he held AA, KK, QQ, or AKs.

Since he just called, He probably has JJ, TT, AK, or AQs.

We haven't looked at our cards yet, BTW.

The flop comes Q53r. He checks.

We bet because we know that he doesn't check raise, so he's truly weak. He could still have one of the pairs we put him on, but doesn't have AQs.

He calls the bet. BTW, if he is really weak, he'll fold here.

The turn comes Q53(7) completing the rainbow. He checks.

We bet, and he folds.

Just for fun, we look at our cards. 24o.

We do NOT show them to him. We say 'Good Laydown' and take the pot.

If you have to show this hand down, and he takes the pot. he may become visibly startled. You can also start to expect to get a lot of action on future hands, so make sure your next raise can stand the heat.

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Now look at the hand from his perspective.

You are UTG with AKo. You raise. Everyone folds to the cutoff who reraises. The blinds fold. Since you are tight and don't like to gamble too much before the flop, you just call. After all, you wouldn't 3 bet without at least AKs, so he probably has a big pair and you are now at best 50/50 against QQ or lower, or in real trouble if he has AA or KK. No, let's see what the flop has in store before we commit too much money to this one.

Flop: Q53r

Well that certainly didn't help. Let's see how my buddy liked that flop. "Check"

Oh crap, he bet it. Maybe he really does have QQ. Nah, he would have checked a set waiting to trap me later. He could have KK, AA, KQ, or AQ though. Let's see if I can catch an A or a K on the turn. "call"

Turn 7

That definitely didn't help. "Check"

He's still betting! Let's see, I raised, he reraised, he bet the flop, and the turn... I must be beat here. No matter what he's got. If he has AA or QQ, I'm drawing dead, If he has KK, AQ, or KQ, I have 3 outs, and if he has AK, then we're chopping the blinds and I lose to the rake. He sure is pushing AK hard, though.

Dammit, I can't be ahead here. I have to give him this one. "Fold"

Hope this made sense, and realize that it is a little oversimplified. Still, it should illustrate the point.

[spaminator101]

postition is more important in NLHE than at any game other than perhaps Triple Draw Lowball
when your im early position you have no idea what the other players have so you need to play much tighter
when your in late position you have a good idea of the other players hands
also being around back allows you to do more effective bluffing before the flop because they know you will have better position il later betting rounds

[randomstumbl]

There's really not a quick and easy way to quantify how much position matters in any specific game. I'd guess that if someone really sat down and figured out a way to measure the value of position that pot limit games or draw games would be most affected. Luckily, it doesn't matter what game makes position most important. Position is ALWAYS important.

When acting last you always have more information than your opponent. Secondly, in any fixed or pot limit game, you have more of an ability to control the size of the pot. You'll always be able to bet/raise or check/call. Your opponent can only bet or check.