My Bustout Hand--Oh The Humanity!!

[Rushmore]

You're right--he should have pushed to my flop raise.

He was not, however, the type of player who "figured I was pricing him in perfectly." He was just taking one off before giving up on the hand, as you can rest assured I will push if a brick hits the turn and he checks.

But yes, I think he would have been wise to push to my raise, because it would have been a good play, and it ould have kept me in the tournament.

[fnurt]

Tough hand. When I read the original post, well, I guess some people would have a reaction to the way the hand was played. I'm not those people - my reaction was more like "dude, this is 2+2, you're going to get like 10 people saying you should have raised more preflop." I don't know a lot about poker but I know this site, as it turns out.

To provide some actual content, I can't criticize your play at all. How much you raise preflop is a matter of taste, as it turns out he made a FTOP error, so how bad can your raise be? I just think, no offense to other posters (except that one [censored]), but "raise more preflop" is just one of the more inane comments you can make on a hand in general. You put it very well when you said "why do I need kings then?"

Similarly, you could argue for a bigger raise on the flop, but I think it's just quibbling. How is anyone to know what the perfect amount is, your judgment was fine. And of course no one lays down KK on the turn. It seems pretty clear that the biggest mistake on the hand was his failure to reraise all-in on the flop, so what can you do? That's poker.

[Rock27]

I am hoping that when you got busted that you fell from your chair to the floor and started moaning and crying [another example of H.L.A.]!

Rock27 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[bruce]

I feel for you brother.

You finally "improve" your hand on the turn, probably the first time in 7 years, and your opponent makes the nuts.

Sounds to me based on goofballs play, no matter how you
played the hand you were destined to lose. I was on the
feature tv table day 1 and in my opinion it puts you at
a big disadvantage compared to others. It's about 25 fking degrees hotter to begin with in a warm room and seemingly everytime you move there's a camera stuck in your ahole.
I also found the play to get significantly tighter on the tv
table. Nobody wants to come across like an idiot on national tv.

Bruce

[bruce]

What the hell are you talking about? Obviously you weren't a math major! You don't have a clue.
I'm assuming if you had KK in this spot you would have pushed BTF. Let's pick them blinds up and the one limper.
That'll get me to the final table.

Bruce

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
You finally "improve" your hand on the turn, probably the first time in 7 years, and your opponent makes the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice.

[mtdurham]

Its posts like these that make poker still profitable.

It is VERY clear that you should raise at least 6,600 preflop.

Here is a very simple concept that people still fail to understand.

Kings are a great preflop hand and not a great showdown hand.

Yes, you want him to make a mistake preflop. You want him to make a BIG mistake, not a small one... and that's why you raise him more.

The last thing you want to do is let him draw cheaply like this.

Tournaments are about survival. If you have 1% of the chips when 4 people are left you are a millionaire.

If you have 50% of the chips with 500 people left you are guaranteed only ~$15,000...

KK is tough to play on the later streets if your stack is significantly bigger than the pot.

Make the hand easier to play, and leave the tough decisions up to him.

Remember, you're supposed to put the OTHER guy at a decision for all his chips... not leave yourself in that position

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I'm a bit late to the party...

Preflop:

There is T400 + T800 in blinds and T900 in antes and his T2200 for a total of T4300 add your call makes the pot T6500 making your raise of T3200 only *half* the pot.

So he has to call T3200 into a T9700 pot. I don't see how any one can or should fold here.

Flop. T12900.

Lets say he has the obvious Axc vs KKc on a two club flop.

He bets T6000 so the pot is T24900 you raise it T9000 more, This doesn't protect your hand it only builds a big pot. He has to call T9000 into a T33900. 3 aces and 8 clubs are his outs and he's making a total of a T2000 error there and frankly, unless you plan on putting no more money in on an ace/club turn he easily makes it up.

Also, if he's opening raising hands like AT/KT/66/99 UTG, you have to be worried about a much larger range of hands then you think.

One last thing, you are a long way from the money with a ~60BB stack once you decide to raise the flop you are essentially pot commited so you should have all your money in the middle on the flop and hope you didn't get unlucky.

Later,
MarkV.

[Rushmore]

Fair enough. As I have said, yes, 6600 would have been better, ok. But we don't play in a vaccuum. Circumstances had been such that I wanted to be sure he made a mistake to compound his original mistake. Results oriented, it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

I still get broke.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
Its posts like these that make poker still profitable.

It is VERY clear that you should raise at least 6,600 preflop.

Here is a very simple concept that people still fail to understand.

Kings are a great preflop hand and not a great showdown hand.

Yes, you want him to make a mistake preflop. You want him to make a BIG mistake, not a small one... and that's why you raise him more.

The last thing you want to do is let him draw cheaply like this.

Tournaments are about survival. If you have 1% of the chips when 4 people are left you are a millionaire.

If you have 50% of the chips with 500 people left you are guaranteed only ~$15,000...

KK is tough to play on the later streets if your stack is significantly bigger than the pot.

Make the hand easier to play, and leave the tough decisions up to him.

Remember, you're supposed to put the OTHER guy at a decision for all his chips... not leave yourself in that position

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh huh. "Poker is still profitable" because I said a 5400 raise isn't bad? I'm impressed at your ability to rattle off all the poker truisms, though - particularly the one about survival, which is DEFINITELY the key to tournament success. All those people who think you need to accumulate chips to make the money, they don't know what they're talking about.

6600 might be a better raise than 5400. There's no magic about it, nor is it VERY clear that 6600 is the magic minimum. And if he had raised to 6600 and the exact same thing had happened, there would be posts saying how poker is still profitable because you obviously have to raise to 8000 here.

Perhaps, since it's VERY clear, you could explain the scientific method by which you determined 6600 is the magic minimum. I assume it is VERY easy to explain.