A confusing hand with multiple agressors.

glean · #1 07-12-2005, 03:57 PM

MP1 is very laggy...62/25/4.80 over a mear 25 hands or so. Mp3 is loose and fairly passive, with an AF of .79, tho thats only over 30 hands.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

MP3, being such a bad player as far as I can tell dosn't worry me too much. Should I have capped this for value, don't think I have a tremendos amnt of fold eqity with thies guys.

Flop: (10 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

MP1 raising is expected, figuring on CRing the turn.

Turn: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero?? 

MP1 checks, damn...wait, the passive MP3 is betting...at this point I'm so confused I have no idea what I should be doing. He is passive, but he is also an idot and I have only been playing for a few orbits with him.

davelin · #2 07-12-2005, 03:59 PM

I'd just complete this pre-flop and then check-raise the flop. Given the way you played this, I'm raising the turn as well.

Malcom Reynolds · #3 07-12-2005, 04:01 PM

Capping is good if MP3 will fold, but otherwise I just call the 3-bet preflop. Great bet on the flop, expecting MP1 to raise you here. I'd 3-bet his raise and go from there. A 4.8 AF means you are getting value out of MP1. Keep an eye on MP3 though.

jrz1972 · #4 07-12-2005, 04:58 PM

Don't raise PF. Lead the flop when you hit TPGK; 3-bet MP1 if he raises and then lead the turn.

Given your PF play, I check-raise the flop and lead the turn.

droolie · #5 07-12-2005, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He is passive, but he is also an idot and I have only been playing for a few orbits with him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we call them morans in these parts but if I guess idot might work too!

As far as your hand is concerned I'm still check raising. You don't have enough of a read on the guy to start thinking you're behind. He bets here with all kinds of crap you beat. Many bad players see only weakness when checked to. Teach him about checkraises. If he 3-bets start to worry.

davelin · #6 07-12-2005, 05:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise PF. Lead the flop when you hit TPGK; 3-bet MP1 if he raises and then lead the turn.

Given your PF play, I check-raise the flop and lead the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Deception (I think) had a good post about why you want to generally check-raise this flop in this situation. I'll try to find the post.

Edit - Link

Eeegah · #7 07-12-2005, 05:13 PM

Go ahead and checkraise, these players are idiots and he's probably betting his pair of sevens.

I had 85o that hand and obviously folded preflop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Took in almost $20 there before starting this tourney I'm in now, best table ever.

glean · #8 07-12-2005, 06:11 PM

yea, i wish i didn't halfta leave. My gf giving me greaf tho. *mutter* Anyway, I didn't check raise unfortunatly. The quick change in my "briliant" plan realy freaked me out for some reason and I hit a hand on my other table and ended up calling down. He had QTo and my inability to adapt and multi task cost me atleast 1bb, and if his play later is an indication, probably more.

toddw8 · #9 07-13-2005, 01:58 AM

At first glance I thought the flop bet was excellent, a good way to protect your hand (big pot, maximize your chance of winning, yada, yada, yada). But upon further inspection, there really isn't any reason to try to get MP3 out of this hand. He's not folding any hand that has you beat (a 3 or AQ) no matter what, and you are way ahead of anything else he can be holding. Might as well trap him for two bets.

A check-raise also helps you define MP1's hand a bit more depending on whether he 3-bets or not. Given his laggy nature, if he just calls your raise he probably doesn't have much. If he 3-bets, who knows?

Given the way the hand played out, the bet by calling station MP3 would scare me a bit. If he really is as passive as the stats suggest, this screams slowplayed trips. But he may sense weakness with the two checks by the aggressors and be betting a dominated Queen. I say stick to your original plan and check-raise. If you are 3-bet, call down expecting to see a 3. If not, plan to bet out on the river and win the hand.

Bodhi · #10 07-13-2005, 02:25 AM

I still check-raise. Everyone checked to him and he doesn't figure that you're going to check-raise. Continue with your plan until you have more reason to believe you're behind.