Cappalletti Blind Defense

[kitaristi0]

Despite being very disappointed with Cappalletti's book, there were some things that i found interesting in the book, and his talk about blind defense was one of them. In the book he outlines a point count system for determining whether to defend your big blind against a PF raiser. However, he doesn't talk about what to do when there people have called the raise in front of you.

For example, say you're dealt 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the big blind. According to his point count system this hand is worth 8 points, and any hand worth more than 5 points is worth defending with. He states that if someone raises and it's folded around to you, you should defend. How does the situation change if two people have already called the raise? What about if five people have already called the raise?

How useful is Cappalletti's blind defense point count system for determining whether to defend your big blind in low limit online O8 games with 5+ people seeing the flop every hand?

What kind of criteria do you have for deciding whether to defend or not?

[Chamonyx]

Good things about this hand:
2 wheel cards
3rd low card
double suited
connectors (twice)

Bad things:
No ace
No 2
No PP

So...

Cash game, I am going to call one raise with this in the big blind irrespective of the number of callers. I like my hand h/u and I like the pot odds to at least see a flop with several callers. I probably fold if it is re-raised before it gets to me.

Tournament: If I have plenty of chips I play as above. If I am lower on chips I play heads up but fold if 1 or more callers in front of me. If I have less than 2 big blinds left (after I have posted the blind) then I call the raise no matter how many callers and see the flop.

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

My GOD, ATE could write a small book, just on this subject, but let's just answer it fairly simply, even though that AINT my style!

First off, no one ever said Mike was the one to listen to, in high low. He's primarily a HIGH player, having made the transition after Maryland outlawed his beloved omaha high.

Yes, ATE has recommeded him to my readers, BUT IN THE SUBJECT OF HIGH OMAHA.

Oh yeah BABY!! the two games, are about as similar to

Having a splinter removed from your leg, to having your leg removed from your BODY.

Ha ha, tee hee hee (tm) don't you just get a KICK out of me?

The advice is POPPYCOCK! anyone who whould suggest defending with 3 4 8 9 against a raiser, and not even getting any kind of odds, just NO KNOW what 'dey talkin' 'bout, PERIOD.

Now, if you are up against someone, well-known to only raise with HIGH CARD hands (oh yeah, they are out there)

MAYBE. But, the reality of life is, that you are already beaten, BADLY, against the vast majority of hands that people raise with.

Sure, you could flop a wheel, but HOW OFTEN? And, who's to say that the rare time you do, your opponent didn't have A 3 4 K, with a flush draw, and now quarters you.

Oh boy, do you lose money, when the flop comes something like 2 5 7, and you think your 34 is actually SOMETHING.

If a six hits, they probably have a better low, if they called or bet the flop. Yeah, an ace makes the nuts, but we know that opponent already has one, maybe more of 'dem lil' pointy things.

on to your other questions:

It's better to defend, when you have a decent or large field, with the right hands. This way, at least when you hit your miricle flop, you can get some value.

But, the specific hand you mentioned, just has very little value. When you call, it's mainly for FIVE .

For those not familiar with aTE and his genius totally original terms: Future Image Value Expectation

You dont want to look like the ROCK OF GIBRALTER, and throw away a hand when seven are in, and you're last to act in the blind. The bet you save, will cost you a forturne in future value, by letting everyone know your a TIGHT ROCK.

Only the very worst hands, should ever be thrown away to one raise, as the big blind

I outlined them, in my 1993 book, too bad you ain't got a copy. Too bad ATE no have copy, it was a masterpiece.

228 k would come to mind, so would 3 7 9 K

you get the idea. NOrmally, the standard when a lot are in, is any two wheel cards, plus WHATEVER. again, you are not REALLY expecting to make anything, and are mainly calling to show that yo u can't be pushed around, and that youj're not a ROCK

BUT, MY NEW FRIEND AND READER, YOU HAD BETTER BE CAREFUL, when the raise comes from a late position, to your right, and there are many many limpers. Oh, man how people LOVE to limp-reraise, in this game.

The advice ATE gave, applies when the original raiser, was the first to enter the pot, and your call SEALS THE ACTION.

when there is a chance that the action will NOT be over, once you make the call

YOU WILL NEED a better hand.

Really, the best way to play omaha8, is to find a game where you really do NOT have to ever make a defend, with a bogus hand.

They are out there, but mainly in BRAM cardrooms. In the Los Angeles area, there are places that offer FULL KILL

(Ed note: "full kill" means that when a pot is won by one winner, and of a certain amount, said winner must put out a blind of a larger amount, and the next hand plays for the larger stakes)

AND, OH YEAH: some of them, are MONOblind.

So, in the 4-8 full kill game, at the HOLLYWOOD park, with a SINGLE blind, and almost half the time playing for double stakes, you do NOT defend, with bogus hands. \

since your blind obligation is so low compared to the size of the pots, AND you can get CREAMATED for staying in with the WRONG hands . . . . . you just don't defend.



Ok, NUFF for today.


I hope you, and anyone reading this, is at least BEGINNING to see the PURE GENIUS of ATE

otherwise, I'll just go back to the sites, where they DO




Adam the helpful genius, and TOTAL master of the game of omaha. Yeah, I've been playing the game, since REGAN was president.

[Chamonyx]

"The advice is POPPYCOCK! anyone who whould suggest defending with 3 4 8 9 against a raiser, and not even getting any kind of odds, just NO KNOW what 'dey talkin' 'bout, PERIOD."


from twodimes:
against AcAs2c3s you are 32/68
against same hand with red double suits you are 28/72, which is probably as bad as it gets, but you still have the odds to play.

against A34K double suited red you are 30/70

Of course, those odds assume you play till the end, and it is more likely that you will get out if you miss than he will.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I've been playing the game, since REGAN was president.

[/ QUOTE ]

REGAN was never the president. He was secretary of the treasury.

Limited substantive comment: I agree with the idea of defending when there are more callers, not fewer. Get paid off when you hit the lottery. Position also is very important however. If the raiser is the player to your right, you don't want to risk a re-reaise.

[bygmesterf]

[ QUOTE ]

Of course, those odds assume you play till the end, and it is more likely that you will get out if you miss than he will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, how ever the big problem with defending with trash hands, is that you tend to make trash on flop which is then very very hard play properly. The net result is that even though omaha hands don't have huge differences in heads up showdown value, they do have big differences in playing effeciency.

In a typical ring game, you call out out of the big blind with all but the worst hands, for the same reason that ATE said. If you fold your BB when getting 8-1 odds, you come across as being very tight.

If Your in a game where you often have to defend your BB against a single raise from late position. Your best move is to change games, life is too short to be wasted in tight O/8 games.

[chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you, and anyone reading this, is at least BEGINNING to see the PURE GENIUS of ATE otherwise, I'll just go back to the sites, where they DO


[/ QUOTE ]
Promise? Bye bye.

[hurlyburly]

[ QUOTE ]
in low limit online O8 games with 5+ people seeing the flop every hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

In these types of games defending is a leak. The money is more than adequate when you do have a hand, so just stick with your normal opening standards. I think the key to this suggestion is finding a place where it applies, rather than trying to make it fit where it doesn't.

This sounds like it might have more application in shorthanded or tournament play, so I wouldn't ignore it completely.

[hurlyburly]

ATE, I like you more and more every post I read.

[ QUOTE ]

But, the specific hand you mentioned, just has very little value. When you call, it's mainly for FIVE .

For those not familiar with aTE and his genius totally original terms: Future Image Value Expectation

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to forget I'm not playing robots and figure they don't notice or care anyhow. Now you have me thinking I should start looking for reasons TO see the flop from the BB with crap, hehe.

It's tilted me before, so I stopped. I think it was because I went to far afterward or didn't see opportunities. Maybe I'm strong enough now to give this a shot.

[Drunk Bob]

Where did ATE say defend the blinds with this BS?

The only BS is where ATE says that Maryland banned Omaha Hi.

There is no legal poker in Maryland.

It interferes with the lottery,horseracing and keno.


Why do you think Neteller is banned in Maryland? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]