live 1/2 nl QQ hand (100$ max buy in)

[Wayfare]

Check raise the flop all-in.

As played, push the river.

[bobhalford]

If you think you are up against a set every time with a big pair on a raggety flop, you are playing scared. I really don't know why you would think the guy has a set. U say he likes to chase flushes, well, make him pay to chase.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
if you full pot, you are going to be stuck regardless of what falls

with a 35$ bet, you have half your stack in there. that puts so much in, its going to be too hard to fold on a safe turn

i say push and hope theres no set. or you could just give up, or shoot for a flop CR-all in if the table is aggr. enough. but w/ that flop and the callers, you probably wont get a bet behind u

[/ QUOTE ]


half my stack huh? you should reread the original entry.

[meleader2]

ok so finally we're at my river play. this is where i think i botched this. Everyone so far says to put him all in for 60$?

[Wayfare]

I really dont like the flop bet because it commits you without information and without giving the opponent a chance to make a big mistake. It also doesn't protect the big pot you have created preflop.

[Ghazban]

The size of the flop bet cannot be discussed intelligently without knowing the sizes of the other stacks that called the preflop raise. If they are all as short as this guy, pushing would be fine. If some of them are deeper than hero, 2/3-full pot is better as a push would only get called by a set.

Wayfare's plan of check/raising the flop all-in (welcome back BTW) is great if you can rely on somebody to take a stab. In casino 1/2 games, I don't think you can assume this will happen (depends on opponents, of course).

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
The size of the flop bet cannot be discussed intelligently without knowing the sizes of the other stacks that called the preflop raise. If they are all as short as this guy, pushing would be fine. If some of them are deeper than hero, 2/3-full pot is better as a push would only get called by a set.

Wayfare's plan of check/raising the flop all-in (welcome back BTW) is great if you can rely on somebody to take a stab. In casino 1/2 games, I don't think you can assume this will happen (depends on opponents, of course).

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. So I have table covered preflop ~$400. The other 2 callers were ~100$, 1 was real tight. I got both of them to fold as you all know. I don't see how my 35$ bet really commits me, though. The only way it commits me now is the size of the pot, which was bloated preflop cuz of the other callers.

The c/r all in on the flop would only work if someone flopped top pair. More likely though it would be checked if I checked, because I raised. a common line at that table was "checked to the raiser" almost every time.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
I really dont like the flop bet because it commits you without information and without giving the opponent a chance to make a big mistake. It also doesn't protect the big pot you have created preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i do not understand what you mean by protecting the pot.

[chumdawg]

You're making this way harder than it needs to be. Though you didn't say so explicity, I'm assuming that two people limped (it might help the analysis to know where they limped from), the small blind completed, you bumped it up to $15, and they all called.

You don't mention if that's a standard opening raise for this table, but I'm kinda thinking it's a little on the high side, based on the stacks at the table and the fact that it went all the way around with just two people limping.

So at this point, when they all call your raise, and then you see that flop, you should be loving this. You have shown serious strength pre-flop, and now you have the opportunity to announce to your opponents that if they want to continue on they are going to have to put all their chips in the middle. I don't bet one chip less than the pot here. Chances are very, very good that you end the hand right then and there. If someone plays back at you, you can either curse your luck that they called off 15% of their stack with pocket eights, and fold, or you can close your eyes and hope they have jacks or tens and gamble it up. But the way you have described this game, I don't think you should worry about getting as many of your chips out there as possible.

On a side note, I certainly hope that if you were going to bet the turn, it wasn't going to be only $25.

[meleader2]

I always bet the standard raise for the table.

I never underbet any street that i've previously bet prior. It would've been 50$ had I decided to bet.