moneymaker/fossilman who's the real deal?? - Page 2

MyMindIsGoing · #11 07-11-2005, 02:05 PM

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You seem to forget on the hand where Moneymaker "sucked out", his AQ flopped a set, and Ivey had to get extremely lucky to hit his 2 outer on the turn. It was a great hand, but saying he sucked out would not be fair, since it is only part of the hand.

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Reasoing like that can also turn it back on Moneymaker sucking out on Ivey saying that Ivey actually had the best hand preflop.

I don't think Ivey called on the flop hoping for a 9 on the turn. I think he called hoping Moneymaker was bluffing with AK/AJ or worse and hoping to take the pot away from him on turn. I think Ivey would have won 2003 if it wasn't for that hand (and maybe a bit beause of the set of sevens vs KK before that).

Ilovephysics · #12 07-11-2005, 02:05 PM

Raymer had a lot of tv hands that made the cut that, simply, left me thinking 'could I have ever moved in with that...' .. which basically indicates how much confidence he had in knowing his opponent would not be able to call (even though certainly there was a great chance his opponent was far ahead in the hand)... obviously, there is some hidden luck in that too... but his ability to read his opponent's skill level (which very much factors into a call) is enjoyable.

As for MM, I'd think it'd be great. You have a WSOP braclet, you have a great last name, and you have everyone in the world pretty much underestimating your play... sounds like a sure-fire way to play a lot of poker and make a lot of money.

InkyWretch · #13 07-11-2005, 02:09 PM

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Found this on an ESPN chat with Robert Williamson III.

Dave (Philadelphia): Do you see Raymer, Moneymaker, or Varkonyi ever winning another bracelet?

Robert Williamson III: I think Moneymaker's game has come a long way. He is a solid player. I don't think he plays that many events anymore. Raymer plays a lot of events but I think even he would tell you that he rose to the occassion that year .. but is he consistently going to win? No. If Moneymaker spent more time playing, he could be a consistent winner.

Williamson Chat

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The most telling part of Williamson's answer isn't what he said about Raymer and Moneymaker. It's who he didn't mention.

BlackAces · #14 07-11-2005, 02:24 PM

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Truly Fossilman's style is very boring to watch. From what I seen, he gathers chips by pushing people out of the pot. Its not fun seeing a player go all in. I am not saying its a bad style, its just a boring style. I get it, you push, they fold, you win.

Now Farha, Ivey, Flack, Marcel, Dan Neg all have a style that is truly a pleasure to watch. They want to see a lot of flops, and they want to outplay their opponent without pushing a whole bunch of chips into the pot. No wonder they all made ESPN featured tables.

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Fossilman was on the featured table on Day 1a.

DesertCat · #15 07-11-2005, 02:32 PM

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Fossilman was on the featured table on Day 1a.

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With deeper stacks, and before he's built such a massive chip advantage, I'll wager this year we'll see some interesting post flop play from GR/FM.

Quicksilvre · #16 07-11-2005, 02:48 PM

I'll say Moneymaker is a wee bit better than mediocre, since he has made a WPT final table as well. However, with the final table he had this year in a preliminary event, as well as one or two other cashes, Raymer seems to be decidedly better for now.

muckdumper · #17 07-11-2005, 09:51 PM

well i hope MM can return to that high level of play again,good wishes and hope to see him again in a final table.was there a secret in rounders that got him there [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

jojobinks · #18 07-11-2005, 10:56 PM

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I'll say Moneymaker is a wee bit better than mediocre, since he has made a WPT final table as well. However, with the final table he had this year in a preliminary event, as well as one or two other cashes, Raymer seems to be decidedly better for now.

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ahem...Moneymaker finished second in a wpt event. let's talk about who else that's won a wsopme has finished as high in a wpt event. i can think of brunson...yeah, that's about it.

HamJam · #19 07-11-2005, 11:18 PM

Well, I've seen Mortensen win a WPT if I'm not mistaken. Plus ME winners are at least on the WPT often, Scotty Nguyen, Hellmuth, Ferguson have all been on it.

ggbman · #20 07-12-2005, 01:34 AM

Raymer's performance over the last year has indaicted that he is amongst the top tournament players in the world right now regardless of what anyone says. In addition to winning the WSOP last year, he has already made a final table this year at the WSOP and made numerous other cashes where he was close to making another big score. (WPT championship, etc...) With his chipstack now, he is a very formidable force in this years ME. Moneymaker was very lucky to win the Main Event, but is now an above average player and his second place finish finish at shooting stars halps affirm this. He doesn't play very many events, so this is why he hasnt made any big splashes latley.