What to look for, in draw player notes, a bit abt. clling after draw

[ADAMtheEXPERT]

Ok, ATE wrote this, in an answer to a question, but it's important for you draw players to see, so I'm repeated it as a new thread too. This is done as a service, not because I like to see my name, as the silly detractors will think . . . and SAY

Fortuneatly for you, ATE has decided to answer your question. Draw poker, is about the only game, where ATE is only the SECOND best expert in the world, after Mike Caro.
But, Mike's not here: ATE is.

Anyway, first of all, ATE does not like when people say "pre" this, "pre" that. I cannot stand people attempting the change our language. Back in the day, of draw games we said "BEFORE" the draw. If you rally want to be technical, the use of "pre" is incorrect, and ADAM hates changes.

Anyway, I also should mention that you must provide complete information, to get the best possible answer.

In this case, the number of players does not really apply, but in other cases, it will.

Was this a 5 max game, a 6 max game, or on planet, where they have 8 players (if there's ever a game)

Anyway, the most important thing to know about draw is this:

You very very rarely call after the draw, with one pair.

In fact, you really need a pretty big hand, to make a call worthwhile. This is because the typical player, does NOT bet, without aces up or better. Many, don't even bet that.

You really need to hunker down, and make very good players notes, not just "they were playing aggressivly"

Here are a few samples, of what to look for, in your notes.

(Bear in mind, that people will bet differently, depending on the number of cards drawn by opponents, number of opponents in hand, and position.

(1) Calling guidelines (or ha ha, tee hee hee: LACK THEREOF!) do they play any pair, any open end or flush draw? Do they play CATHOPS (Ed note: 'cathop" is a two card draw, to a straight flush, usually sequencial) Will they open, with a two card draw to a royal?

(2) Raising standards. Will they raise with only a big pair, if so, how big is there minimum. Will they raise with any two pair, or does it have to be kings up or better.
Do they slowplay there pat hands, or limp with them? Same for trips raise, or slowplay
Many players, will chicken out before the draw, with two tiny pair. They know, that they're chances of winning, if the opponent starts out with two higher pair, are very slim.
And, even if opponent only has one pair, that they have almost one in three to outdraw.

(3) Betting standards, after the draw. Will they bet two pair, if checked to. Or, must it be two large pair. Are they a "trips or better" bettor. Will they try to check raise. and, or course DO THEY BLUFF

(4) Drawing style. When they have trips, do they take two, or tend to keep a kicker? Quads. do they play them pat, or take a card. PAT BLUFFS. do they ever play there pairs, pat, to discourage betting after the draw, or just to be a $^@^@#^king sneaky SOB?

(5) Calling standards after the draw. What will they call with. Do they seem to be aware, that this deciscion should be based on the number of players, and the cards drawn, or do they just automatically call with two pair or better.
Important: DO THEY EVER CALL, WITH ONLY ONE PAIR If so, how high a pair.


Anyway, without more information, it's not a good idea to call in this spot. There is a difference, between aggression, and bluffing. Since you draw three, they have to think that you have a pair, and may have made two pair, and that you will call. ON the other hand, if they've shown ANY bluffin' tendencies in the past, you can slap in a call here and there. The point being: It's not SO EASY to actually get a flush draw or a straight draw, in the first place, MUCH LESS COMPLETE ONE

(Ed note: this is of course, the reason why an ATE-trained player, rarely plays straight and flush draws, and when does, it's mainly as an "image" play.)

It's just under 5-1 against them makes an open end straight.

(39-8, actual odds) And almost 4.5 to 1, agaisnt making a flush. (39-9, actual odds)

Unfortunately, the pot odds don't justify a call, soley on the basis of pot odds. HOWEVER . . . . there are of course
(for those serious students of ATE) more reasons to call

JUST DON"T PLUCKIN' call every time, in this spot.

Use game theory, to randomly call the person, about half the time, in this spot. Say, anytime the lowest card in your hand, is red.

But, only because you said that they appear to be "aggressive" MOST PEOPLE, AND I MEAN MOST, ESPECIALLY IN GAMES OF 2-4 AND LESS, JUST DO NOT BET AFTER THE DRAW, WITH ANY HAND THAT CANNOT BEAT ACES.

however, it's important to let 'em know, that you can't just be pushed around, and THIS IS THE PRIMARY BASIS, TO CALL. You're trying to discourage them from bluffing, as most of the time, they are going to get away with it, as you just don't have the pot odds, in this game.

In lower games, against average people, ATE would call about one time in six. So, if the lowest card in your hand, is, say the 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, or jack of diamonds, you call.

In this particular spot, I'd call more frequently. The vast majority of players, WILL raise one player, with two pair, and will NOT bet two small pair, against a three-card draw. That against leaves us with a draw, which ATE's already said is against the odds, to complete.

My friends, if this article does not convince the bratty detractors that ate is truely a GENIUS of poker, then they are just too blind to see.


KEEP ON DRAWIN'


Adam, the helpful genius

[slimeywater]

mr genius
r u also a genius at pot limit draw
if so i would appreciate another spiel