Questions to people doing this for a living, from same:

Evalias · #1 07-09-2005, 06:02 PM

I feel like I'm constantly stuck treading upstream all the time.

I am writing this right now in the midst of a vacation in which I decided to ignore most distractions and concentrate on really building up my poker bankroll.

Overall, I am finding myself constantly around the $1000-1500 mark and never climbing much higher as I am always having to cash out for bills, expenses, etc.

My most recent game to mess with was the 10's, I am averaging above a 40% place rate there in the last 2 months. I started with .5/1 limit, moved up to 1/2 and 2/4, as well as making several K over time on the 25/50 NL Party games (the old structure).

It seems like whenever I am at a good place zooming my bankroll up, I start hitting a monster downswing that ends up about halving or generally blowing away a large part of my roll, that ends up psychologically affecting me, that then impedes my ability to play and put in X hours, to keep earning.

When I look over my hand histories I am not noticing large errors. Like most players, in hindsight, I find a lot of small to moderate errors, a bet here or there from a guy who plays any two, not wanting to fold large overpairs without much evidence that I am totally beat, things like that.

Should I just concentrate on the play that suits the particular player I am up against, never raise/call raises ever, or what? Despite the generally accepted TAG model I have found that when I do the old "bet and fold if raised" play the damn LAGs abuse it to no end, showing down midpair against A-high.

I guess I should just keep playing the damn 10s until I hit about 2k then go to the 22s? I decided that for now I am extremely fed up with the outdraws in 2/4 limit, beyond the fact that my roll is no longer sufficient.

What are people's thoughts on this maddening see-saw? I am wondering whether it will just be better for my game to be way over-rolled, that way my psychological desire to play doesn't get crushed, like it has this weekend. I am curious what you all have to say.

Finally, not that it may be all that relevant, but I destroy NL home games and casinos. I feel that while I am far too nervous playing live I just have next to no losing sessions, which makes up for it.

Hybrid_11 · #2 07-09-2005, 06:15 PM

I used to see-saw just like that but partly because i never could decide on a game to play. I was playing limit,no limit, stt, mtt whenever i felt. Id win at one but lose somewhere else and then just switched around. Focus on what you do the best with and give yourself a goal for so long to only play a certain type of game (preferably dont focus on mtt's) and see how that goes.

sinfulslick18 · #3 07-09-2005, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
\Focus on what you do the best with and give yourself a goal for so long to only play a certain type of game \

[/ QUOTE ]

TStoneMBD · #4 07-09-2005, 11:06 PM

there is such a thing as the professional poker player ratrace. if you are caught in the ratrace i wouldnt recommend going pro. my definition of the poker ratrace means that you are earning just enough money to pay expenses, but not enough for bankroll building. this is a severe problem.

you really need to strive to get to a place where you are making at least $50/hr. once you reach this your financial concerns will wither away in due time. you cant keep grinding a living on the bankroll that you have if you dont improve to a much better hourly rate. eventually variance will hit and you will go broke.

i dont recommend playing sit and goes. its hard to make a living on them. id recommend you play limits in which you dont need much of a bankroll but your potential earn is great. ideally you should learn how to multitable and play small stakes cash games. if you dont think you can beat cash games, you can still 6-8 table sitngoes and make decent money.

you should be focused on improving your game. dedicate yourself to studying poker during all of your spare time. if you cannot reach a level in which you can earn at least $50/hr then poker is not a good path for you, and i say this with serious and heartfelt intent.

memphis57 · #5 07-09-2005, 11:08 PM

You play for a living with just a 1500 bankroll?

phish · #6 07-10-2005, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living with just a 1500 bankroll?

[/ QUOTE ]

He never said it was a good living.

pokerjoker · #7 07-10-2005, 01:47 AM

1. get to the point that there is a game where you are making the most money consistantly over time..even if it is .25 .50

2. multitable

when u build your bankroll/skill then move up.

....if you are losing money or just breaking even rethink your game. I suggest reading up also, you will find lots of mistakes that you didnt know were mistakes. A solid player does not need luck to win money consitantly at low limit party poker.

Wally Weeks · #8 07-11-2005, 06:58 PM

The first thing I'd consider is cutting any sort of unneccessary expenses for awhile and calculate your bare minimum monthly nut. I know you have to enjoy life, which you should, but plenty of people eat out and spent way too much money on entertainment, hookers, beer, model airplanes, what have you, etc., etc.

If that doesn't work, and I doubt you'll want to hear this part....

Not to sound like a square or anything, but how about getting a full or part-time job. The money earned from the job will free you from worrying about paying bills and allow you to build a sufficient roll. More importantly, you can work on your game so you can increase your hourly expectation.

Of course, a job may cut into optimal playing times, but what's more important? A job may also help (a.k.a. force) you set a decent playing schedule, if you don't already have one. When I was in college, I remember seeing some pretty fluffy statistics on students that had part-time jobs to those that didn't work at all...as you can imagine, the students that worked somewhere around the 20-25 hrs/week range had the best grades overall.

I'm not sure what you earn per month, but it doesn't sound much better than working at McDonald's...at least that's consistant (not to mention all the free fries and all the unlimited catsup packets you can drink).

Regards,
Wally

R_Ellender · #9 07-11-2005, 08:49 PM

I agree... a job won't hurt until you get enough money saved up to tolerate downswings. With a job, you'll always have money coming in, regardless of how the cards fall. Once you have a sufficient bankroll, along with a few months expenses saved up(a year wouldn't even hurt), you could possibly consider poker as your only occupation, though at that moment you must be very confident in your ability to "bring home the bacon".

Its like Matt Damon said in Rounders... don't forget the cardinal rule...

Always leave yourself an out.

RoundersRocks! · #10 07-12-2005, 07:56 AM

I've had some of the same problems. My bankroll would take rediculous swings, alot of it was the old party system. The 50X blind NL game was just inherantly swingy. I myself frequently lost or gained 7 buy-ins in a night sometimes.

Although it theory it makes sense to get a part time job for living, so poker money can builf your bank roll, the part time job itself sucks. I have a friend who will conistantly leave a 2-4 game where he is up 400 bucks or more early because he is late for work at Wendys. It just feels silly.

Also, hiring managers dont seem to like "I have been getting high, watching BET and playing online poker for the last two years" when they ask why there is nothing on your resume for the last two years.

But that is neither her nor there I guess.

Take some of the variance out of your game, I wouldnt be surprised if you slow-play too much. If you are awsome at live poker, why waste your time on the internet? Go with your strenth. Have strick rules governing how you take care of your bank roll. Get into rakeback if youre not, it's a nice backup regular cash surge around bill time.

Also take breaks more, the internet wears you down in a way that is easy to be unaware of.

You do sound stuck in a ratrace.