Too aggressive on first hand? - Page 2

Brad F. · #11 07-08-2005, 03:22 PM

I like this thread, good question.

Those 30 chips will mean nothing in the long run. Absolutely nothing in my opinon. I fold and keep my 80 chips, which also doesn't mean much at this point in the tourney really, but I think in most cases you either gain 30 or lose 80 here. Not +EV IMO, slightly -EV.

HOWEVER, if there is a limp or two, or a raise to 60 or even 80 with a caller or two, I'd call or limp in a heartbeat. You are in position, and these types of hands often can be the hands that get you ahead in a tourney.

For example, in a 30+3 the other day, I have 4-8 of clubs on the Button. MP1 minraises to 40, MP2 calls, I call, both blinds call.

Now already you have a pot of 200. Flop comes A-10-4 rainbow. Chech check, bet of 75 from MP1. 1 fold, I call, blinds fold. Turn comes another 4. He bets 100, I raise, he reraises, we eventually get all-in and I beat his A-10.

This is just an example, but when I do well in a tourney, it's usually because of hands like this early on. I think it's +EV to call with these types of cards in late position early, but slightly -EV to open raise.

Brad

sirtemple · #12 07-08-2005, 07:58 PM

Since many players call too much, especially early in tournanments, stealing is a poor play in the first few levels. That makes sense, I appreciate the help.

In case y'all are interested here's the remainder of the hand:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to t80, Button calls t80, SB calls t70, 1 fold.

 Like I said, I thought this was a good spot for a steal. I agree now that I had very little FE b/c it was so early in the tourny 

Flop: (t260) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t180, Button calls t180, SB folds.

 Awesome flop for my hand. Flush draw and an inside straight draw. I bet hoping for a raise from the button, so I could re-raise all-in. I thought about a a straight push, but that seemed excessive. I also thought about a c/r, but didn't want them hanging around w/ a random ace. I figured a bet would knock out the hands the flop missed, and a pair of queens might raise, giving me the opportunity to re-raise all-in. 

Turn: (t620) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t400, Button calls t400.

 This may have been a poor bet. I still had 12 outs, so I wasn't afraid to commit more chips. He was slow to call my flop bet, so I thought he might have a Q-baby and not like his hand too much. I thought there was a fair chance I could get him to lay a pair down, and still had outs if he called. 

River: (t1420) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t840 (All-In), Button calls t840 (All-In).

 My hand came in, and Im pretty sure he'll call so I just push. My aggression the whole way probably doesn't look like a flush. I'm suprised he's hung on this long, he shoulda just let me steal the blinds.

Final Pot: t3100

ansky451 · #13 07-08-2005, 08:03 PM

I'm going to disagree with everyone here. I think this is an OK play if you are comfortable with playing the flop with such a crappy hand. If you get heads up with a blind and he checks to you then you have a good oppurtunity to take the pot. You don't have 27o- your hand has some hope.

Pat Southern · #14 07-08-2005, 08:04 PM

You have to check this turn, getting checkraised sucks.

ansky451 · #15 07-08-2005, 08:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to check this turn, getting checkraised sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to be a jerk, but again I have to disagree. The ace is a scare card to the other player. Now hes not even beating an ace high continuation bet from the flop- if he called with a random pair on the flop

Pat Southern · #16 07-08-2005, 08:23 PM

So bet the river if he checks to you again. A bluff is just as likely to work on the river as it is on the turn, and this way you don't get trapped into putting in more chips than you want.

ansky451 · #17 07-08-2005, 08:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So bet the river if he checks to you again. A bluff is just as likely to work on the river as it is on the turn, and this way you don't get trapped into putting in more chips than you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks more like a bluff if you check behind on the turn and bet the river than if you fire 3 consecutive barrels.

sirtemple · #18 07-08-2005, 10:01 PM

Oh yeah, then there was the showdown.

My 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gave me a King high flush and his A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] gave him a higher flush. Doh!

I still liked my post-flop play, although I probably shouldn't have been in there in the first place.