put in one more raise? Party 30/60

[Klepton]

this looks like a flush or AhQ, raise and call a cap

[SoBeDude]

[ QUOTE ]
no, you bet out on the flop and called the raise. then C/R the turn. this isn't exactly what i'd call "a lot of strength", ie full house. if i was villain and had a flush i would gladly 3-bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

nothing wrong with his 3bet on the turn.

my point is I capped the turn after he 3bet it, AND lead out on the river, and he still raised.

-Scott

[vulture]

Hi SoBeDude,

I think you made a mistake by not threebetting the flop. If you didn't hit your fullhouse on the turn you had to bet out again. A threebet on the flop puts more pressure on draws. He'll pay off a lot of hands, so you don't have to be scared to raise him out of the pot.

At the river I would definitely reraise. IMO you'll have the best hand often enough to make the raise profitable. Lots of opponents will raise you in that situation with hands as low as three of a kind Q, but also with a flush and possible lower fullhouses. His raise preflop indicates that Q8, Q3 or Q4 are unlikely, so the chance that you are beat is very low.

Regards,

Vulture

[vulture]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Als antwoord op:</font><hr />
you're only losing to three hands QQ, 88 and Q8 and not a one seems likely given the betting sequence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Though I agree with your conclusions on the hand, I don't agree with this line. All these hands are (very) possible (Q8 least possible). Because of the three flush on the board, it is likely that the opponent wants to play his set fast. On such a flop and turn the betting sequence doesn't say he can't have 88, although his call on the four bet on the turn is too loose (but not very stupid).

Regards,

Vulture

[SoBeDude]

I think some people are missing the total picture of the action.

What range of hands do you put villian on when he raises the flop? He's shutting out the 3rd player, which he probably wouldn't want to do with a made flush, right? I mean why would he want to scare away his customers with a monster made hand? maybe if his flush was fairly weak, he'd want to charge the max for anyone holding a single big heart.

But now he 3-bets the turn when the queen pairs. Which in itself doesn't mean a lot, as online players will do this with a large range of hands. but now I cap it and lead the river.

He's now shown strength at EVERY opportunity to do so. he's raised preflop, he's raised the flop, he's raised the turn, he's raised the river after I capped the turn.

Good lord people, at one point do you finally start giving someone credit for having a *BIG** hand?

For example, lets look at how I'd play 88 or QQ in his spot: surely I'd raise preflop. on the flop I hit my set but I don't like the 3 hearts. gee, SB bets in to me, he probably has a big heart or a queen, I'm going to raise to shut out the possible big heart behind me or at least charge the max to any flush draw. Turn, Bingo! I hit my FH (8's full) or my quads and this guy check-raises! heck I'm 3betting. he capped? fine I call. river he bets in to me again, heck I still have the best hand, I raise!

Would I play a made flush the same way? no! sure I'd 3bet the turn, but when it gets capped back at me and my opponent leads the river, I'm just calling with a flush.

So it seems to me, the range of hands that an unknown opponent will RAISE AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY and every street is not a range I'm ahead of after he raises the river.

Or is it just that the online 30 game plays so aggressively that I need to ignore all this and just jam?

-Scott

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, lets look at how I'd play 88 or QQ in his spot: surely I'd raise preflop. on the flop I hit my set but I don't like the 3 hearts. gee, SB bets in to me, he probably has a big heart or a queen, I'm going to raise to shut out the possible big heart behind me or at least charge the max to any flush draw. Turn, Bingo! I hit my FH (8's full) or my quads and this guy check-raises! heck I'm 3betting. he capped? fine I call. river he bets in to me again, heck I still have the best hand, I raise!

[/ QUOTE ]
88 doesn't have a set on the flop. Its almost inconcievable that he has 88. You have the effective second nut and lose only to QQQQ. Unknowns are going insane with trips, 3s full, or a flush more often than they have you beat here, IMO.

[baronzeus]

There is no way I am not 3 betting this river. Ever.

[lil feller]

Unless the converter messed up, there was no 8 on the flop. Unless villian is a complete maniac he can't have 88. That means he could reasonably have.

33
QQ
AQ w/ A heart and thinks you are woofing.

33 is much more likely then QQ, and would play it the same way. AQ would really be getting out of line on the river.

I think this is an easy 3 bet, if you get shown QQ, so be it. If, however, you have information on the villian that would lead you to believe that he wouldn't raise the river w/ 33, then just call. Against an unknown, however, this is an automatic 3 bet.

lf

[baronzeus]

I'd 5bet and call a 6bet. Would anyone here 7bet?

[Subfallen]

Despite being a paranoid, nit-shrouded half-wit, I 3-bet this river and cough in nervous anticipation of the pot being dragged to my shaky hands.