Game selection- How important for the complete player?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

The better players consider "all the bells and whistles" mandatory. Not their edge.

Game selection can't be overstated. Period. If your goal from poker is $. Then game selection and money management are tied for #1 in importance.

[DarkForceRising]

[ QUOTE ]
The better players consider "all the bells and whistles" mandatory. Not their edge.

Game selection can't be overstated. Period. If your goal from poker is $. Then game selection and money management are tied for #1 in importance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't deny the money management and game selection importance, however, some of the best players do not use the profiling crutches. Those "bells and whistles" are not mandatory.

Just look at all of the posters who set up a hand they want to discuss with a bunch of numerical "reads" and then proceed to do some incredibly stupid [censored].

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The better players consider "all the bells and whistles" mandatory. Not their edge.

Game selection can't be overstated. Period. If your goal from poker is $. Then game selection and money management are tied for #1 in importance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't deny the money management and game selection importance, however, some of the best players do not use the profiling crutches. Those "bells and whistles" are not mandatory.

Just look at all of the posters who set up a hand they want to discuss with a bunch of numerical "reads" and then proceed to do some incredibly stupid [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Change the word mandatory to automatically assumed. The best players aren't talking about it because it's like them talking about whether AA is a good hand preflop. It's assumed so far back that it's not discussed anymore.

Why tie one of your hands behind your back?

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I probably did not make the post clear enough but the assumption was that the player in question is the best at the table. Also, even if the game is on the tight side, the players are of the weak tight variety.

What got me thinking about this is that (smaller-stakes, generally) players who employ all the bells and whistles (PT, PV, PE, GT+) and are obsessive about their game selection don't appear to be racking up any unusually high winrates. Furthermore, it also seems that some more talented players who don't bother with all of this are doing just as well- if not better.

Just an anecdotal observation. Kind of like every time I get KK an A flops. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

And for the record, I bail out of rock gardens quickly. The complete player I was referring to is certainly not me.

Thanks for the responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the important point here is that the purpose of table selection for good players is to be seated with players who are *not as good*. For poor or average players, the point is to be seated at a table with *big pots*. Or for slightly better players, to be seated at a loose, passive table.
It's just as possible to make mistakes playing weak-tight as loose-passive as loose-aggressive. You can even find TAGs who make big mistakes. A good player will seek out tables where players make the most mistakes, regardless of what style they play, IMO. (Although, if there's 6+ people to every flop, it does make the job of picking out the weakness(es) a bit easier [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[odellthurman]

I play 3/6 and think that seat selection at a table is equally important to game selection.

As for winrates, don't believe everything you read.

[hurlyburly]

That's just sorry. No tools are required to play perfectly. Game selection is much more important, and the complete player isn't limited to the game that has the most tools available.

How do you pick the most profitable Stud/8 table?
Stud?
O/8?
PLO/8?

Those can all be more profitable than holdem, and there aren't in-game tools available. Or is this a topic about the "Most Complete Internet Low Limit Holdem Player"?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
That's just sorry. No tools are required to play perfectly. Game selection is much more important, and the complete player isn't limited to the game that has the most tools available.

How do you pick the most profitable Stud/8 table?
Stud?
O/8?
PLO/8?

Those can all be more profitable than holdem, and there aren't in-game tools available. Or is this a topic about the "Most Complete Internet Low Limit Holdem Player"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand what you're disagreeing with. I agree with you. Are you saying that you don't need PT, GT+, etc to have good game selection? If they do anything well they make game selection easier.

[Rode_Dog]

I can appreciate the idea of being a student of the game. I too, feel I am a student, but my approach is different. Long term, I will learn to play well against many different types of players.

Short term, though, I'm looking to build my BR and improve my game as a TA playing against mostly loose and semi loose players. IMO, it is easier (and more profitable) to get VERY good at one thing first. Master one and move on to master another.

This is why I play only NL ring games. I stopped playing limit and tourneys so I could focus completely.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
The better players consider "all the bells and whistles" mandatory. Not their edge.

Game selection can't be overstated. Period. If your goal from poker is $. Then game selection and money management are tied for #1 in importance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't deny the money management and game selection importance, however, some of the best players do not use the profiling crutches. Those "bells and whistles" are not mandatory.

Just look at all of the posters who set up a hand they want to discuss with a bunch of numerical "reads" and then proceed to do some incredibly stupid [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]


i like how this guy thinks

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]


Change the word mandatory to automatically assumed. The best players aren't talking about it because it's like them talking about whether AA is a good hand preflop. It's assumed so far back that it's not discussed anymore.

Why tie one of your hands behind your back?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's just not true. El Diablo has stated that he does not use poker tracker and periphery products for at the table evaluation. Schneids at one point I think said he was 8 tabling the 10/20 short games and hadn't done any notes exports from PT for months (this was before the player view revelution).

I am not saying that these tools cannot add value and that great players don't use them, but they are not the be all end all people make them out to be. They certainly have more value if you are playing more tables than you can actively observe at once, or if the player pool is very large and players come in and out of the game frequently. I do believe, however, that understanding the underlying concepts of good play and knowing how to propperly apply them is much more valuable than knowing someone's VPIP, WTSD, etc. and THAT is something that ALL the great players on these boards have a good grasp of.