JJ in SB - 30/60

johnnycakes · #1 07-05-2005, 06:57 PM

I'm new to the table. No reads on villian.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Did I go into call-down mode too soon?
Or should I have the balls to 3-bet an unknown opponent who waits til the turn to raise me?

Stuck · #2 07-05-2005, 07:03 PM

Looks fine to me. A turn raise even on steals and HU often means that top pair is beat, especially if you don't know one another. I couldn't three-bet and I couldn't fold.

Turning Stone Pro · #3 07-05-2005, 07:08 PM

I would have called the turn raise, but check-raised the river. If you were behind, which is only 50% of the time at most, this card helped you immensely. I check-raise.

TSP

ggbman · #4 07-05-2005, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would have called the turn raise, but check-raised the river. If you were behind, which is only 50% of the time at most, this card helped you immensely. I check-raise.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

It only really helped if the guy had 92 or 96 which is doubtful. Trickly players could have AA, KK, QQ, or any set here to beat you. They could also have TT, 98s, 78s, etc... I like the turn call, i might opt to raise that river sine it is safe, but your line is definitly ok.

BlindingLaser · #5 07-05-2005, 07:16 PM

I highly doubt his opponent has a two pair that just got corrupted: Does an average button steal any two (or down to 96s) here? It's likely my opponent just boated (if I was already behind) and I don't want to give him three bets on the river when behind. This does warrant a calldown, though, his opponent could have TT or A9s quite easily. I like it, as is.

Xhiggy · #6 07-05-2005, 07:23 PM

the river card helped because you know it didn't give villain 2pair, and if he did raise with overcards, he didn't catch. it's fairly unlikely that the villain has a 5 here after it pairs, so the board pairing is the least likely card to have helped the villain..and I think it protects you against being 3bet on the river (unless villian has a really strong hand). I like a river-check-raise as well.

scott8 · #7 07-05-2005, 07:53 PM

I take your line w/o more info.
What hand do you beat that pays off your raise?
A9, k9, and 10s??
And even those are suspect for a donk.
I do agree, however, that you must raise the river and not 3 bet the turn if you plan on going this route, to not chase off a worse hand.

La Brujita · #8 07-05-2005, 08:01 PM

I three bet the turn for value.

LarsVegas · #9 07-05-2005, 08:22 PM

I would like QQ to checkraise the river, but I agree with the rest that other than that it's a fine spot for that move. AA and particularly KK won't 3bet, usually, and getting fourbet on the turn would really have sucked.

But I think JJ is a tad bit to thin here. I have this (admittedly of world class in limit holdem) friend of mine who I think almost seems to "punish" himself with the thinnest of raises, when the easiest and at least, to me, best choice would be to "just say no". QQ would have a couple of the very likely hands beat (JJ and TT) and be beat by the slightly less likely AA, KK or 99. JJ just beats to few hands that are likely to give this action.

Is donkbetting the river perhaps a compromise with the jacks?

lars

Nightwish · #10 07-05-2005, 08:27 PM

I would 3-bet the turn most of the time. Think of the preflop action. Your opponent is putting you on A high, so he could easily be raising the turn with any pair with the intention of checking behind on the river if you call the turn. If you 3-bet, he'll still call you and either call or fold on the river, but regardless, you make at least one more BB for those times when he doesn't suck out on the river.

Of course, if you 3-bet the turn and your opponent caps, you're in serious trouble. In this situation, you would unfortunately be forced to call down against a complete unknown.