Commerce 9/18 #1: ATs

jason_t · #1 07-05-2005, 06:38 AM

Table reads: very loose, very passive (especially on the river) with the exception of the SB who is Klepton.

This is my first time playing 9/18.

Commerce 9/18.

Preflop: I am BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, MP1 limps, MP2 limps, Klepton completes, I raise, all call.

Flop: (14 sb) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
Klepton checks, I bet, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 fiddles with nine chips and then calls, Klepton folds, I call intending to bet a safe turn card, UTG calls.

Turn: (12 bb) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
I check, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, I....

akvsaq · #2 07-05-2005, 06:42 AM

There's a chance your hand is still good and extremely vulnerable. I think you should fight for the pot right now and raise the turn. The pot is big so go to battle.

Klepton · #3 07-05-2005, 06:43 AM

i cannot really comment on this hand as it will be results oriented, but i think the bast lonjg run answer i can give is:

call and re-evalutate on the river

commerce players are very passive on the river...
if i club come jason knows he's not good
if an A or T comes jason could be able to call and be ahead
and there's still a chance it gets checked through

Klepton · #4 07-05-2005, 06:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There's a chance your hand is still good and extremely vulnerable. I think you should fight for the pot right now and raise the turn. The pot is big so go to battle.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is concentrated hotness

akvsaq · #5 07-05-2005, 06:59 AM

I think calling is not a good idea. I think you need to eliminate players or force them to call 2 big bets so they don't get a cheap shot at a low 1 card flush. I think this is a raise or fold. The pot is big so I lean towards playing, since you're playing maximize your chance to win it. This is a good chance to raise! When you checked the turn and if it looks like you can't eliminate, then I can see a point for calling but not in this situation.

ArturiusX · #6 07-05-2005, 08:55 AM

The pot being 'big' and 'protecting your hand' do not go together I'm afraid.

ethan · #7 07-05-2005, 09:19 AM

I still can't believe that we agree on "fold" after going through the math.

I feel dirty just saying it.

jason_t · #8 07-05-2005, 09:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I still can't believe that we agree on "fold" after going through the math.

I feel dirty just saying it.

[/ QUOTE ]

By which he means ethan and I just spent the past hour discussing this hand over AIM and reached the conclusion, albeit reluctantly, that folding the turn is correct. But we feel very bad about it. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Someone help.

PokerBob · #9 07-05-2005, 09:43 AM

I'm either raising or folding, and I think I'm folding. I would have bet the turn, by the way.

HajiShirazu · #10 07-05-2005, 10:09 AM

I would probably bet the turn, but if I checked and it turned out like this, which is about as good as you could ask for, I guess I would go ahead and raise and not really like it. I don't like calling though.