Questionable Hand? Just was lost

Hybrid_11 · #1 07-01-2005, 12:26 PM

Knew to the table just started an orbit so no specific reads of any sort.

I have been told qj is a bad hand to play and for the most part i believe thats true but with position i feel it can be played pretty easy so I'm not looking for a fold pre-flop kind of critique, i already know hand strengths.

I assume that on the flop most people are going to say fold so I'll throw my thinking. With middle pair I gave myself 2 outs for the queens 4 outs for the kings and another .75 outs for the backdoor flush and .75 for possibly 3 jacks which puts me at about 7.5 outs which i felt was enough to continue getting 8 to 1 sb odds. Im including the bets made from mp1 and the call before im to act.
My main question is concerned with the turn. I feel weak just calling 2 cold but im scared to see someone wake up on the turn. Do you believe it is safe to 3-bet this or is the simple call down in order or maybe even a fold and can i value bet this river?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO raises, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

QTip · #2 07-01-2005, 12:30 PM

This hand is fine up until the turn, pop it.

Also, when posting this hand, I would not post the river action as it can skew the turn thoughts.

thejameser · #3 07-01-2005, 12:36 PM

why no turn 3 bet?

jskills · #4 07-01-2005, 12:40 PM

Although I might even consider raising the flop, I would certainly 3-bet the turn. You are a big favorite here.

Hybrid_11 · #5 07-01-2005, 12:47 PM

Im not sure why I did not 3-bet in my mind the quick reflexes i was thinking was only the hands im behind aq,kq,q10,kj

I accidentally posted the river but disregarding that what hand can we put the turn raiser on that I have beat. I can see any weaker queen but thats about all i can think of and maybe an ace but thats pretty aggresive play on the turn with just an ace.

One more proposition to is what if i do 3-bet and it gets cap what would be my plan from there am i calling down UI?

Nikademus · #6 07-01-2005, 01:01 PM

I'd put MP1 on Ax or was on a flush draw, and CO likely has Q with a weaker kicker. I would have 3-bet the turn to see where I was vs straight or flush draws.

jskills · #7 07-01-2005, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

One more proposition to is what if i do 3-bet and it gets cap what would be my plan from there am i calling down UI?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we have to without a 4 flush or 4 straight on the board.

QTip · #8 07-01-2005, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One more proposition to is what if i do 3-bet and it gets cap what would be my plan from there am i calling down UI?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is going to showdown.

crunchy1 · #9 07-01-2005, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I accidentally posted the river but disregarding that what hand can we put the turn raiser on that I have beat. I can see any weaker queen but thats about all i can think of and maybe an ace but thats pretty aggresive play on the turn with just an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]
You need to realize that all Ax hands where x <= 10 just got counterfeited. If I were CO here and had limped with an Axs hand I would probably not hesitate to raise for value and increase my chances of winning at showdown. I'm (again from the CO's perspective) not worried too much about anyone given the lack of aggression shown so far. MP is very likely betting a draw. Getting another weak Ace, naked Kings/Jacks or even 2 small diamonds would be VERY good for me here.