KQs- Comments

[bozlax]

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I dunno, I read a ton of posts like this from villian's POV where people say "3-bet flop, call down if capped, lead turn if not capped".
I think it's generally bad advice, but the fact is a lot of people think this way.

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This would be bad advice in this situation. I say, generally, you only want to be pumping the flop for a flush draw/OESD if: 1. nobody's showing much agression, 2. the original bettor is on your immediate left (or 2 to your left if you're in CO and the Button is still in), so you've got a large part of the field trapped, and 3. you're draw is likely to be close to the nuts (in this case you'd be ok, even with the possibility that A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is out).

[bozlax]

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...so you aren't protecting your hand that well...

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Not to mention that you have nothing to protect on the flop. You're drawing, so raising is to swell the pot for when you do hit your hand, and possibly get you a free turn if you need it.

[bozlax]

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Dueig:

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I would just call the first flop bet. If you raise and the rest of the field drops

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Since the pot is jumborrific, I don't mind if the field drops.

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You want to be HU against what (by OP's read) is, at worst, a made hand or, at best, an overcard with a four-flush? You're not going to chase out the entire field (the original bettor, also the preflop limp-raiser, will at least call you), so you want as many people as you can find putting money into this pot, while you put less in.

[bozlax]

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That raise is good IMO, because you have little reason to think that Button and SB will fold. They call 2 cold on pf, they could very well call 2 cold on the flop.

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I had considered this, and I think it's a good point. The flip side to it is that when Button called 2 cold preflop there was only one aggressor in the hand (Hero), and there were 4 players in before him. SB was only calling 1.75 with 5 players in. From their perspective they were getting odds to play a lot of hands they might not without that many players likely to be in.

By the flop, from Button's perspective, you've lost 2 (probably 3, since it looks like SB will fold) players, leaving only the preflop aggressors. Unless he's LPPPPPPP, I don't see any reason to think he'll call 2 cold, here, and unless SB is slow-playing 55/33/53 it looks like he's pulling the rip-cord, too.

Therefore, call, and hope that Button and SB's hands look good enough for 1 bet.

[tiltaholic]

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That raise is good IMO, because you have little reason to think that Button and SB will fold. They call 2 cold on pf, they could very well call 2 cold on the flop.

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I had considered this, and I think it's a good point. The flip side to it is that when Button called 2 cold preflop there was only one aggressor in the hand (Hero), and there were 4 players in before him. SB was only calling 1.75 with 5 players in. From their perspective they were getting odds to play a lot of hands they might not without that many players likely to be in.

By the flop, from Button's perspective, you've lost 2 (probably 3, since it looks like SB will fold) players, leaving only the preflop aggressors. Unless he's LPPPPPPP, I don't see any reason to think he'll call 2 cold, here, and unless SB is slow-playing 55/33/53 it looks like he's pulling the rip-cord, too.

Therefore, call, and hope that Button and SB's hands look good enough for 1 bet.

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true. from that perspective calling make more sense.

[Padawan Learner]

Bozlax:

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You want to be HU against what (by OP's read) is, at worst, a made hand or, at best, an overcard with a four-flush?

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Where did he give the limp reraiser credit for being straight forward? I see so many limp reraises with crap. You may see a small pocket pair or some suited connector type hand here alot. If you are quite certain you are up against AA or KK, then yes, call the flop and hope to pad your price.

Also, my point was simply that the pot was so large that I am interested in improving my chances of winning this. I will typically raise a bet from a RHO with overs and a flush draw in a raised pot. And if they all want to call 2 cold, that is great. Having this pot go HU is not a crime, unless you have the limp reraiser on a very narrow range of hands.

[bozlax]

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Where did he give the limp reraiser credit for being straight forward?

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He didn't. He gave players credit for raising and reraising with pocket pairs and playing Ax. That's what I was referring to.

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I see so many limp reraises with crap.

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You have a more fun place to play than I do, then. The last limp-raised hand I saw beat me like a tied-up dog.

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Also, my point was simply that the pot was so large that I am interested in improving my chances of winning this.

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Which I agree with, but I don't think getting the hand HU improves your chances. You're unlikely to be dominated by anyone other than the limp-raiser, so spiking a pair either will (if the best other hand is ace-rag) or won't (if the LRR is holding AA) win the hand. Getting people out doesn't change that, nor does it change that your best chance of winning is making your flush, and for that you want as many people along for the ride as possible.

[gopnik]

I don't like the flop cap. Why are you capping here? The rest looks fine.

[karitek]

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...so you aren't protecting your hand that well...

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Not to mention that you have nothing to protect on the flop. You're drawing, so raising is to swell the pot for when you do hit your hand, and possibly get you a free turn if you need it.

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yeah, sorry - i wasn't that clear. i meant that you aren't even cleaning up your outs that well because the pot is so huge.

[Entity]

I'm ass-backwards because I cap preflop and call the flop unless UTG+1 is either very tight or very passive.