calling 3 cold in a HUGE pot

[setzf]

when the turn action came to me i was way over 92% sure that i was beat by at least one person if not all three. at that point it was just a matter of drawing to my boat. so depending on whether it gets capped or not im somewhere between 7.5-8.5 to 1 to hit my 10 outs. plus im sure i can grab an extra 3 BB AT LEAST on the river if i hit so the call seems right.
if i had been playing against complete morons (in the general sense) i would call the river. but i was implying was that they were just terrible poker players, they weren't stupid human beings or complete psychos looking to throw away their money.
in the end when the cards where flipped over bb who capped the flop when it was two to call had 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for a gutshot hit on the turn and the other two had pockets fours and A4. see i told you the game was good.

[SeaEagle]

[ QUOTE ]
You're simply not going to find yourself with the opportunity to call 1BB to close the action in a 30+BB pot with enough frequency to make calling (or folding for that matter) a huge mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this is the important aspect to me. I just read an excellent (IMO) essay in one of Malmuth's books a day or two ago called "It Doesn't Matter" where he described a discussion over whether or not to open raise w/ AA from the CO. The essence of the essay was that the EV between raising and calling is reasonably close and the situation arises so seldom that it's really not worth spending time on this situation - that most players would be better served worrying about real leaks.

For me, it's probably fair to say that every time I get to close the betting on a 30+BB pot for 1 bet, I'm calling with pretty much any made hand.

[setzf]

i dont think that the bet raise and reraise on the turn could possibly be coming from draws or two pair simply because of the heavy action on the flop. after all everyone saw me three bet from the button after a bunch of callers and the bb cap oop when she only had one bet in.

[setzf]

simply saying its 38-1 and i have a set therefore i call is way too simplistic in my opinion. maybe if i was online and had absolutely no reads i would call. but in a live game where i can feel the excitement of somebody wanting to jump out of their seat on the turn i have to take into account my read and to some extent trust my judgment, otherwise i'm no more than a computer program.

besides none of this is what i was hoping people would talk about. what i was hoping someone would suggest which i realised might be the best play as soon as the hand was over (hence why im posting) is whether or not i should cap it myself on the turn. this way if i get bet into i can be 100,000% sure im behind or i might get a free showdown.

[jskills]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why fold on the river? It seems if we are concerned about the straight or the flush, we're folding the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now why would we do a silly thing like that?

I think the river fold is fine.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I am guessing what you are advocating is calling the turn to see if you fill up, but folding the river is ok since you were obviously behind?

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont think that the bet raise and reraise on the turn could possibly be coming from draws or two pair simply because of the heavy action on the flop. after all everyone saw me three bet from the button after a bunch of callers and the bb cap oop when she only had one bet in.

[/ QUOTE ]
I won't dare begin to try and dispute your read - if that's what you felt then I don't have any problem with a river fold. As I said, one way or the other - it really doesn't matter that much.

What I do have a bit of an issue with is that your OP states: "game is an aggressive donkfest". This read, IMO, indicates a game full of aggressive maniacs. Maybe my read here is wrong but, I think if you want good advice then you need to provide good initial information. This probably wasn't the case in the OP.

I'm not pissed or flaming here. I just want to point out how easily it is for repliers to misinterpret ambiguous statements, that are provided as factual reads, in many posts that grace this wonderful forum.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
is whether or not i should cap it myself on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
In an earlier post you stated: "when the turn action came to me i was way over 92% sure that i was beat by at least one person". If this was the case than I don't really see capping as an option - unless you're sure that it's going to get capped behind you anyways. If that's the case then I don't see capping as bad because you're seeing the river regardless and you could possibly get the free showdown. If there's a chance that you can get to the river for only 3BBs then you should call as your implied odds skyrocket on the times when you hit.

[ QUOTE ]
this way if i get bet into i can be 100,000% sure im behind

[/ QUOTE ]
Capping the turn is not going to give you any extra information against 3 other players.

[setzf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont think that the bet raise and reraise on the turn could possibly be coming from draws or two pair simply because of the heavy action on the flop. after all everyone saw me three bet from the button after a bunch of callers and the bb cap oop when she only had one bet in.

[/ QUOTE ]
I won't dare begin to try and dispute your read - if that's what you felt then I don't have any problem with a river fold. As I said, one way or the other - it really doesn't matter that much.

What I do have a bit of an issue with is that your OP states: "game is an aggressive donkfest". This read, IMO, indicates a game full of aggressive maniacs. Maybe my read here is wrong but, I think if you want good advice then you need to provide good initial information. This probably wasn't the case in the OP.

I'm not pissed or flaming here. I just want to point out how easily it is for repliers to misinterpret ambiguous statements, that are provided as factual reads, in many posts that grace this wonderful forum.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes i see you're point and how it can influence some posts, i will take your advice seriously. thanks [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why fold on the river? It seems if we are concerned about the straight or the flush, we're folding the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now why would we do a silly thing like that?

I think the river fold is fine.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please explain? Thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its pretty simple. We're beat.