KQs- Comments

Piper Tim · #1 06-29-2005, 11:31 PM

In trying to be selectively aggressive, I have come to the point where I know what pre-flop hands to play and when (mostly). I was dealt a good hand and had a few reads on the table. People were raising and reraising with small pairs or playing a lot of Ax. Other than these, I had few other reads. Was I aggressive enough with it or did I play it recklessly? My gut told me to cap preflop and back down later if needed, but I didn't (obviosuly).

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

crownjules · #2 06-29-2005, 11:36 PM

I think I like calling the flop. A raise would be good if you knew your overs were clean, but UTG's PF 3-bet means that if he's a decent player, he's on AA-JJ (maybe TT), AK. That being the case, your value is in the flush draw and you want to try and get the two after you to call. Capping is reckless, IMO.

Otherwise, good.

milesdyson · #3 06-29-2005, 11:50 PM

i agree with crownjules. i would call the flop the first time. after you raise and he 3-bets when it's heads up, there's little point to capping.

karitek · #4 06-30-2005, 07:00 AM

pre-flop - i think you played it fine. capping might only get out the button and sb, which you don't want - you want them to pay off your hand when you hit it.

i think you should just call the flop. the pot is so big that people are still getting 10:1, so you aren't protecting your hand that well anyhow. plus, your overcards probably aren't clean (even with the craziness of the table, i'd give the 3-bettor some credit unless i'd seen him make multiple crazy plays). also, you'd like the button and sb to stick around if you make your flush.

i don't see why you capped the flop. you don't have enough equity to be raising for value, and UTG+1 isn't going anywhere.

Fantam · #5 06-30-2005, 07:18 AM

Its unusual to see players limp then re-raise. However some players like to do this when they have AA or KK. They limp because they are afraid everyone else will fold if they raise, but if someone else raises and other players call, they think it is safe for them to 3-bet to build up the pot.

So I think that you were correct not to cap PF.

On the flop, you have the 2nd nut flush draw and 2 overcards. However, I suspect that pairing either of your overcards may not be good enough to win, as UTG 3-bet PF.

So I would have called UTG's flop bet, so as not to risk folding out the players behind me. I would have liked Button and SB to call and help pad the pot for those times that I complete my flush draw.

Basically you just need at least 3 other players to call to make it worthwhile when you have a flush draw on the flop, because your chance of making your flush by the river is about 2:1.

Once you made your flush on the turn, it was obviously correct for you to raise the turn and bet out on the river.

McGahee · #6 06-30-2005, 08:19 AM

I dunno, I read a ton of posts like this from villian's POV where people say "3-bet flop, call down if capped, lead turn if not capped".
I think it's generally bad advice, but the fact is a lot of people think this way.

I agree on just calling the first flop bet, but if he decides he wants a free card, a cap isn't a big mistake once he's 3-bet. A cap could also make villian whiff on a turn C/R if he has a hand.

Duerig · #7 06-30-2005, 08:54 AM

I would just call the first flop bet. If you raise and the rest of the field drops, you aren't betting for value anymore.

Padawan Learner · #8 06-30-2005, 10:11 AM

Dueig:

[ QUOTE ]
I would just call the first flop bet. If you raise and the rest of the field drops

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the pot is jumborrific, I don't mind if the field drops.

bozlax · #9 06-30-2005, 10:29 AM

I don't cap this preflop, especially against an unknown early position limp-3-bettor. Raise and call the 3-bet, perfect.

By your read, you're behind to either ace-rag (and A3 or A5 and you're in pretty deep doo-doo) or a small pocket pair (again, 33 or 55 would be very bad). Call this and hope BTN overcalls. You're not going to chase out UTG+1, so you can't win HERE, so you might as well try to keep one other player in with you to pump if you make your hand.

On the turn, you make your hand. If you'd kept BTN in, I'd say just call here and pop on the river. Since it's HU, I pop it here (it's likely to be the same amount of money from UTG+1, either way, unless he makes a better hand on the river).

So, IMO, you were over-aggressive on the flop, but you were lucky in that driving out UTG+1 didn't cost you any bets because UTG+1 was, in fact, holding AA. Once you were lucky enough to make your hand and it was HU, the hand plays itself.

What would you have done had the turn been 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

tiltaholic · #10 06-30-2005, 10:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In trying to be selectively aggressive, I have come to the point where I know what pre-flop hands to play and when (mostly). I was dealt a good hand and had a few reads on the table. People were raising and reraising with small pairs or playing a lot of Ax. Other than these, I had few other reads. Was I aggressive enough with it or did I play it recklessly? My gut told me to cap preflop and back down later if needed, but I didn't (obviosuly).

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going against the grain to say that everyone else is wrong - well, only the people who said, call the flop.

That raise is good IMO, because you have little reason to think that Button and SB will fold. They call 2 cold on pf, they could very well call 2 cold on the flop. Bummer that they folded, but if only one of them stays then your raise has good value.

Once it gets headsup, I wouldn't cap, since you are behind at this point.