Razz (cross-post)

[AKQJ10]

I felt like making a post commemorating that today is the razz tournament in the WSOP, but I put it in the Stud forum because I thought I'd seen a few razz posts there before. However, I don't know how much cross-traffic there is there and here.

So.... Is razz dead? (Personally I hope not.)

[lucas9000]

depends on how you define "dead." if you define "dead" as not being able to find a game running in most poker rooms, then razz is dead. if you define "dead" as not being able to find games anywhere, then it's not dead because games run on at least two sites that i know of (fulltilt and gamesgrid), and i bet there are games here and there or in vegas during the world series.

[randomstumbl]

I don't think anyone minds razz posts here. It's just that most of the people that regularly play it play stud high a lot. So, you get better answers to strategic questions there.

I will say, I can't imagine playing Razz except in a mixed game. Playing it 8 hands at a time is frustrating enough.

[TheShootah]

I love Razz! I am disapointed in the lack of Razz posts...

[AKQJ10]

Well, apparently Ivey bounced out quickly. Guess he's resting on his PLO laurels. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The CardPlayer report said that they had 100 more entries than last year, so maybe the Razz WSOP is healthy. Of course compared to the 20000% increase or whatever in NLHE I'm sure it looks paltry.

Good points in the previous replies. One of my favorite aspects of online poker is that even old-school games like 5-stud and 5-draw are available. Not to mention crazy pineapple....

[GuruCane]

Razz is boring and rather straightforward (even David admits it in his book). Idiot yahoos stand no chance even though it is sometimes a frustrating game of sucking out. That's why only people like us enjoy it. The public doesn't dig stud games b/c there isn't the all-in horsesh-- that we see on the WPT every Wed.

[TheShootah]

There are alot of tricky plays that can be made in Razz. That "Razz is boring and easy" mentality can get you outplayed, or stuck in a rut.

[GuruCane]

And trying to make too many tricky plays can do the same. Not saying that I am a great Razz player, just saying that a lot of it is clear based on the odds.

I would love to hear some tricky plays as I could stand to learn some, so if you wouldn't mind posting a few eg's I would appreciate it.

I would also add that by straightforward I didn't necessarily mean "easy". Some steal plays and resteal plays are straightforward to me based on playing and David's book. Now if you then kick it up a couple of levels of the TOP psychological scale, then you got me beat big time.

[TheShootah]

Yeah, agree, there are alot of situations where it's clear cut. There are some examples of tricky plays in Sklansky on Razz, such as the check call on 4th, the check on 6th for information, etc. There are just alot of plays, mostly in stud games, where if you make the play you will lose the same amount of bets as if you played it a different way, but you will win more bets if you make your hand. It's really hard to describe. It may be raising on 6th with a hand you know is second best, but looks very good. You can be drawing to beat the guy, so if he calls your raise he will probably look to check and call your bet on 7th. The only thing is, you will check it back if he misses, but bet if you improve on him! So instead of just calling his bets on 6th and 7th, you lose the same (2 bets), but can gain an extra bet or two on 7th if you hit. Just that kind of stuff. Some people who think that the simple play is always best may just call both bets. I dunno. I just made that up, and it may be flawed but hell, it sounded damn good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[GuruCane]

This raises a good pt that someone raised a while back. When studying Razz, you need to study the texts on 7-stud. If you have done that you are in good shape (I have not).

At any rate the late-going at the Razz event seems to be a crap shoot now since the blinds and antes are so high.