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#51
06-29-2005, 12:45 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
I know the hand. Howard won on runner runner flush.
The perfect player is infinite times better than chip reese hahaha. You're thinking too much in terms of reality. Think philisophically. It's hard to imagine something like this but this is what I mean. The perfect player never loses I'm telling you hahaha. Think of it backwards this might help. If a player never lost he is perfect. How can someone be perfect if he loses??? You must think outside of what you know to be logical, what you know to be reality. If we disagree than we disagree it's cool. 
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#52
06-29-2005, 12:57 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
[ QUOTE ]
An SNG can be beat by only showing down one hand, the last one. The perfect player can win every single SNG he plays. There is just no one alive that can do it. Don't think in terms of reality, think in terms of the word perfection. Try to picture it, an SNG can be won by only showing down 1 hand, the last one. The perfect player will grind you down to 1 chip and then take you out with the best hand when he gets it. We all strive to become this person, no one will ever do it obviously but it is possible. Just because no one has ever done it or no one will ever do it, doesn't mean it's not possible. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, and just because no one takes a beat EVERY HAND during a SnG doesn't mean it is not possible, either. So, since it is possible, your hypothetical perfect player cannot win every SnG (assuming he plays a so called infinite amount, he can do that since he is imaginary). Or, does your perfect player somehow ELIMINATE chance?
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#54
06-29-2005, 01:04 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
I think you are just inviting contraversy by mislabling (and there by placing a value judgement) your two things as High Ceiling and Low Ceiling. It is really postflop and preflop play respectively. I agree that players who can play in deep chip stacks and make great post flop plays are more impressive to me (the best TV poker performance I've seen was Daniel Negreanu playing the 6-max super deep stack poker at the plaza). If you prefer the type of poker you call "high ceiling", or think that this style of poker is where your greatest edge is maybe you should consider not playing SnG tourneys. Or playing SnG tourneys on sites that have more chips and slower escalation. I'm in the minority of the STT posters in that I play exclusively at UB with the 10 minute level 1500 chip stacks and here as often as not you do NOT end up with push/fold decisions on the bubble nor when heads up starts. Obviously sometimes you still do because a bunch of people survive to late stages or you get crippled and end up on a short stack. But often I find that the last 5 have players with between 2500-3500 chips (or 1 short stack and 4 3000+ stacks) and 50-100 blinds. Here there is room for your prefered "high ceiling" play.
But to think that the people here who talk about "low ceiling" startegies arte intrinsically wrong or suboptimal is a mistake.
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#55
06-29-2005, 01:05 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
[ QUOTE ]
Can a perfect player beat a table filled with 9 other perfect players? [/ QUOTE ] You just blew my freakin' mind!
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#56
06-29-2005, 01:07 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
Nope the cards decide that one. Every hand would be shown down cause the players would run out of chips trying to find the pefect play to outplay themselves.
We agree on this right?
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#57
06-29-2005, 01:10 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
I don't know, that's why I'm asking you. I don't know enough of what a perfect player would be.
But here's my thinking. A perfect player is someone who never makes a mistake. At a table full of perfect players, nobody would have an edge over anyone else, or over the table as a whole. So in an infinite number of trials, they would all finish in each position exactly 10% of the time. And lose to the rake [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#58
06-29-2005, 01:14 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
yes the perfect player eliminates chance. Not literally. He just does not get involved when he can't win. And another thing to think about besides the fact that the perfect player needs to only show down one hand, the last one. He also only needs to beat one guy, the last one.
Trying to explain philisophical and hypothetical players to a math guy is like abbott and costello's "who's on first."
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#60
06-29-2005, 01:22 AM
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Re: Low Ceiling vs High Ceiling-SNG strategy(long)
one thing I want to make clear is that HC is both Preflop and Postflop. I have replied to many people with this quote from my Post...
[ QUOTE ] High Ceiling is poker played on both the preflop level and the post flop level [/ QUOTE ] this means HC players use the LC strategy when it's optimal. You said at the end... [ QUOTE ] But to think that the people here who talk about "low ceiling" startegies arte intrinsically wrong or suboptimal is a mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Low Ceiling play is suboptimal in levels 1-4 on PS and levels 1 and 2 on Party. So this is incorrect. Using only the LC strategy CAN be suboptimal.
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