BB raise, knockout raise

sy_or_bust · #1 06-28-2005, 03:31 PM

MP1 and Button are fishy, SB is semi-loose. Preflop I figured my equity advantage was too big not to push. On the flop I often have the best low draw and want to fold weak high draws - betting seemed obvious. On the turn, I decide that SB will usually have me beat for half the pot, but rarely all, while I can potentially outdraw 2 pair or the nut low for the scoop. Even though MP1 will often have a weak pair or worse, I raised to increase my chances. The river seemed obvious. Thoughts?

Party Poker 2/4 Omaha/8 (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, SB calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10BB

TGoldman · #2 06-28-2005, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, I decide that SB will usually have me beat for half the pot, but rarely all, while I can potentially outdraw 2 pair or the nut low for the scoop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would guess that SB's bet on the turn says that you're beat for at least half of the pot, often you're going to get scooped here. All you have is one-pair for the high, albeit it's a pair of aces. SB's bet into two people on the turn says to me that he has at least a straight or the nut-low, and perhaps the nut-low with a decent high. If any of these are the case, you're in a lot of trouble. When your best prospects are your opponents getting counterfeited on the river and/or a draw to two-pair, things aren't looking good. I think you can fold here.

That said, if you're going to play it I suppose your raise on the turn is better than calling. It's risky, though, because you're screwed if MP calls, and like I said above you're praying that your one-pair hand for high is good. If you can succeed in getting MP to fold as you did, then I like it since if you just call, you're probably going to have to face another bet on the river. Yet if you raise, MP will probably check it to you on the river and you can check it through as you did and show it down for "free." So in reality raising costs the same as calling both a turn and river bet. Still, I think you're better off folding.

TurdFerguson · #3 06-28-2005, 04:15 PM

Assuming your reads of your opponents are accurate, I'd generally agree, although I'd have considered just calling the turn (maybe with A2 a raise is in order?). What did SB have? I suspect either A2 or a set...

TF

gergery · #4 06-28-2005, 04:35 PM

I think it’s very opponent dependent.
Certainly you do not like your hand and have less equity than your opponent here.
But you may have enough equity to continue and if you do then raising is best.
Against a good or tight player I’d fold, vs. loose/bad probably raise

sy_or_bust · #5 06-28-2005, 04:37 PM

That makes a lot of sense. I guess I gave my hand too much credit. Still, giving SB credit for a potential scoop seems really generous because he's seeing the flop so cheaply. Wouldn't it be highly unlikely for SB to hold A2 plus 2 pair or better? Could you really lay this down, and at 2/4?

In any case we split: SB shows 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the turned 2-pair / rivered straight. As it turned out my read was OK, but maybe I'm being results-oriented in this situation. I'm starting to see the likelihood of split-or-worse in these situations, but in a raised pot I will never feel comfortable laying this down. Is just calling viable? Is raising the only play?