FOld AA here?

[sekrah]

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I posted this to see if anyone else thought that this guy had 87, like I did, but like you I didn't think that he would have called my inital raise with that hand so I reraised and pushed all in.

I figured he had two pair and he did, but I wanted to see if I was right so I paid the price to see his hand. Otherwise I would always wonder if he bluffed me out of something.

I think after he reraises me he is saying I have two pair and you better be able to beat that

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You need to become a stronger pre-flop player.. a 3x BB raise is too weak.. 5x or 6x should be standard with AA or KK.

Why do you keep posting these hands, trying to look for reasons to fold AA?? If you are tired of tough post-flop decisions with A-A.. Bet them strong preflop and your decision will be alot easier..

You are playing with way too much fear to become a good player... Get freakin aggressive preflop..

[yoadrians]

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I posted this to see if anyone else thought that this guy had 87, like I did, but like you I didn't think that he would have called my inital raise with that hand so I reraised and pushed all in.

I figured he had two pair and he did, but I wanted to see if I was right so I paid the price to see his hand. Otherwise I would always wonder if he bluffed me out of something.

I think after he reraises me he is saying I have two pair and you better be able to beat that

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You need to become a stronger pre-flop player.. a 3x BB raise is too weak.. 5x or 6x should be standard with AA or KK.

Why do you keep posting these hands, trying to look for reasons to fold AA?? If you are tired of tough post-flop decisions with A-A.. Bet them strong preflop and your decision will be alot easier..

You are playing with way too much fear to become a good player... Get freakin aggressive preflop..

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't disagree with you more. You don't mind some action with AA or KK. 3X-4X BB raise is standard here. Why push everyone out when you get your monsters?

AA or KK is never a guaranteed pot, and yes, you might actually have to play some poker on the flop. But when I get AA or KK, I don't want to push everyone aside and steal the blinds. I'll make my standard raise and go from there.

Telling someone to raise 6X the BB with AA is just bad advice (unless, of course, there are two or three limpers in there ... then I don't mind upping the stakes a bit ... how about 3X BB raise PLUS 1 additional BB for every limper? That's been suggested here, and I think that's solid advice).

[sekrah]

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I posted this to see if anyone else thought that this guy had 87, like I did, but like you I didn't think that he would have called my inital raise with that hand so I reraised and pushed all in.

I figured he had two pair and he did, but I wanted to see if I was right so I paid the price to see his hand. Otherwise I would always wonder if he bluffed me out of something.

I think after he reraises me he is saying I have two pair and you better be able to beat that

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You need to become a stronger pre-flop player.. a 3x BB raise is too weak.. 5x or 6x should be standard with AA or KK.

Why do you keep posting these hands, trying to look for reasons to fold AA?? If you are tired of tough post-flop decisions with A-A.. Bet them strong preflop and your decision will be alot easier..

You are playing with way too much fear to become a good player... Get freakin aggressive preflop..

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Couldn't disagree with you more. You don't mind some action with AA or KK. 3X-4X BB raise is standard here. Why push everyone out when you get your monsters?

AA or KK is never a guaranteed pot, and yes, you might actually have to play some poker on the flop. But when I get AA or KK, I don't want to push everyone aside and steal the blinds. I'll make my standard raise and go from there.

Telling someone to raise 6X the BB with AA is just bad advice (unless, of course, there are two or three limpers in there ... then I don't mind upping the stakes a bit ... how about 3X BB raise PLUS 1 additional BB for every limper? That's been suggested here, and I think that's solid advice).

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I only gave him that advice, because he's posted several AA hands where he's looking for reasons to fold against GREAT flops for his hand.

I personally, would probably raise 3x-4x, looking for some action.. I'm comfortable playing the hand post-flop.. From the numerous posts on this subject, JC Saves is not comfortable with it.

Soem people just don't have the stones or know-how to play the hand post-flop, they get either, A) Scared to death where they think their opponent always has the nuts, or B) Refuse to give it up when it's totally clear they are beaten.

Just move all-in preflop or something, make it look like a bully play and maybe A-K, A-Q, A-J, or a lower pair will think your bluffing and call it.


You can't bet 3x with A-A, and then go into the tank worrying about two pair when a bunch of garbage hits the board..

Why even play A-A if you're always looking for a reason to fold it? We had the same discussion the other day after the flop came 8-2-2.. JC bet the flop and a guy made a raise at him and he folded it!! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Why even play the hand?!?

[yoadrians]

Sekrah - Exactly. Thanks for your response. I was unaware that your advice was player specific to J.C. Saves.

[JC_Saves]

It is not that I am uncomfortable with AA or KK. The discussion I was hoping for was when would you muck AA.

I mean AA is the best hand preflop. We can all agree on that. But once the flop comes we have to reevaluate our hand.

I mean the two hands that I posted really were different in character. One hand I raised 3BB PF and I played to the river AI after the flop from raising and then getting reraised, putting them on the two pair, and then reraising AI and seeing the two pair.

The other hand I raised preflop 4BB got called by two people and then the board comes 228. I bet about 1/2 the pot, get one caller, and then reraised 3 1/2 times my bet. It is early and I have lots of chips so instead of pushing AI. I fold, because I felt I have to push AI if I am going to continue this hand.

I realize that he might not have had a 2 or 88, but don't we have to learn to let AA go at some point? or is the answer always, no?

I am trying to not fall in love with my hand to the point of suicide.

Hence the reason for the post. When would you muck AA?

Thanks for all the good input that you all gave.
In hindsight, and at the time, I thought I probably had the best hand, but I respected the raise and let them go, because I feel that I am a better than average player at my level and figured there would be more opportunities later to acquire chips.

[Shorty35]

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I figured he had two pair and he did, but I wanted to see if I was right so I paid the price to see his hand. Otherwise I would always wonder if he bluffed me out of something.

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this is a habit you're going to want to break.

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What he said

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Amen.

[sekrah]

Only way I fold A-A on the flop is if it's something like K-Q-J, or K-K-Q or something really ugly and I am up against tight player/big stack who has only been betting when he has something.

I'll fold AA on the turn or river if there's a similar board, or, 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush (and I don't have it!).


The board needs to be really ugly before I'm going to fold Aces.

8-7-2, 8-2-2.. These are dream flops if you made a solid raise preflop..

I would never fold Aces online with those flops.. I COULD conceiveably fold them in a live B&M game if I have a great read on my opponent, but most likely I would play them fast.

Sometime last year, I was sitting in at the 1-2 NL game at the Borgata with about $150 or so in front of me.

I put in a $20 raise pre-flop (that was actually about standard for this game, it was wild). Anyway I got two callers, one behind me, and one in front of me.

Flop comes Q-9-3. The guy in front of me, has been EXTREMELY tight the entire time.. I can't even remember him playing more than a couple hands for the 60-90 minutes he was sitting there.

He fires $20 at the pot.. I re-raise to $60.. the guy on my left, who was pretty loose-weak calls! At this point, I'm thinking "Oh Yea!! This guy has A-Q, the guy at my right is going to fold, I got this!"

But wait.. Mr. Tight on the right moves all in and he has me covered!!. First thought.. "I'm fecking dead!!" and I'm just about positive he flopped a set of 9's.. I grab my jacket off the back of my seat and say, "Call.".. Guy on my left goes into the tank and folds, and "Mr. Tight" turns over pocket 3's. I was probably hoping and begging was being weak preflop with Kings, but it wasn't to be..

To make matters worse... An ACE was exposed during the initial deal!! After we turn over our hands I say, "I'm dead, there's no aces in the deck, he had the last one!", pointing to the guy on my left, and he nodded his head.. A-Q.

That capped off a VERY bad night for me.. and after thinking about it over and over again, I kept trying to convince myself that I should have laid down those rockets.. My instincts were dead right all along..

But now, more than a year later.. I'm convinced more than ever.. That was nothing more than the variance of the game, and if I had the hand to do all over again, I would have played it no other way...

[coheedandcambria]

Hmmm... WWJD?

[PokerGal7777]

This is a tough call. Was he all-in on the flop, turn? What happened when the river came? Check, Check? Did some1 bet the river?