I think I threw up a little in my mouth on this one...

[microbet]

I don't understand. If he's on the nut flush draw, I want my bet sufficiently large for his call to be a mistake, and even larger if he'll call it.

(Actually a bit larger than for it to be just a mistake for him, because I think in a tourney there's a range where could both lose equity.)

[freemoney]

i hate raising the flop really, it becomes an awkardly large pot and your hand is transparent if you make it, a straight or a flush (which is easiy not best), id rather call the flop and evaluate on the turn.

[freemoney]

you really dont wanna play a big pot here, especially against 2 opponents, your goal should be getting this to showdown cheaply not giving the nut flush draw incorrect odds to hit.

[wrongshui]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand. If he's on the nut flush draw, I want my bet sufficiently large for his call to be a mistake, and even larger if he'll call it.

(Actually a bit larger than for it to be just a mistake for him, because I think in a tourney there's a range where could both lose equity.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Erm, both players have already shown aggression... Like I said before, the best you can hope for, is to knock out #1, if he was just being silly with his bet... That board, with 3 players, I don't think he was... I think he's made his straight or has got a good drawing hand right now... I dont think he's on AcK... I think #2 is on Ac.

If you re-raise, and #1 calls, #2 now has proper odds to make the call.

So how are you forcing out the higher flush draw? You aren't... The only way you can make improper odds to call, would be if #1 had the nut... which with that silly bet, I dont think is happening... i think he's either got a straight, or possibly 2 pair... either way, he's staying in.

[adanthar]

Let's see...ok, PF good, pot's 180, you flop an OESFD and an overpair and so far one putz minbet and another raised to 1/4 pot. Yeah, I'm making it 200 here and pushing the turn, and I don't think it's close.

But OK, you called. The difference between pushing the turn and making it 325 is...well, you getting beaten by AKo.

edit: Incidentally, everyone commenting on this hand needs to realize that Ac only has 6 outs (plus the aces).

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

But OK, you called. The difference between pushing the turn and making it 325 is...well, you getting beaten by AKo.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your line. I'd try to shut this down on the turn too.

As far as putting villain on AKo, is this a normal line for AK at this level? Seems a little incongruent see someone calling t310 on the turn with only a 12% chance to hit.

(This is where someone points to pot odds and I slap my forehead for looking like a donk in front of everyone.)

OK, in an effort to learn, can someone check this for me:

1. Pot odds for Yotti's call on turn was appx. 2:1
2. This call now gives iheartfish appx. 3:1

If either of these guys have AK, then he is only 7:1 to hit, making this a bad call, correct?

[adanthar]

Your math is right (well, not really, if he thinks his overcards and his draw are some mix of good, he has 10-15 outs or 3-4.x:1) but you forgot the donk factor.

'It's only 300 chips so I call'.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
Your math is right (well, not really, if he thinks his overcards and his draw are some mix of good, he has 10-15 outs or 3-4.x:1) but you forgot the donk factor.

'It's only 300 chips so I call'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually didn't consider him holding a club in the math.

The good news about the donk factor (dF) is that it is a known constant: "If opponent bets, then call."

[KingDan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand. If he's on the nut flush draw, I want my bet sufficiently large for his call to be a mistake, and even larger if he'll call it.

(Actually a bit larger than for it to be just a mistake for him, because I think in a tourney there's a range where could both lose equity.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does this equitity go? Does us having imbalanced stacks increase everyone elses?

[microbet]

It does. ICM Calculator

Check it out there.