pushing TPTK

punter11235 · #1 06-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Hello all !

Villain is new to me (as he is for my PT). Its sunday evening so most villains are just having fun, what do you think :

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($277.00)
UTG ($273.25)
UTG+1 ($363.00)
MP1 ($184.50)
MP2 ($207.75)
MP3 ($163.75)
CO ($190.00)
Button ($96.00)
SB ($193.00)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, MP1 raises to $8, 1 fold, MP3 calls $8, 3 folds, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $12, MP3 calls $12, Hero raises to $50, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $38.

Turn: ($137) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $219, MP3 calls $105.75.

River: ($461.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $461.75

Comments appreciated. I will post results later

xorbie · #2 06-26-2005, 05:41 PM

I've stacked people off with KQ here before, but AA seems more likely in my book.

Finite_Risk · #3 06-26-2005, 08:15 PM

I am painfully learning that TPTK gets beat for big pots way more often than you would think

PrincipalSkinner · #4 06-26-2005, 08:54 PM

I believe that his calling your large flop bet was a warning of bad things--either he flopped a set or a straight draw which he then filled.

Weatherhead03 · #5 06-26-2005, 08:58 PM

You can sometimes suck people in with KQs here also there is a chance that he called on a busted flush draw although with you having the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] that is a little less likely. On the other side of things..you are far behind a set and once he filled his straight there is no way he is folding to your push. Im not sure if I would push here although it has its upsides. I would most likely lead out strong again and see how it goes from there.

MikeL · #6 06-26-2005, 09:06 PM

I think this illustrates why many here advocate keeping
a pot small with TPTK. Not because TPTK doesn't win, it
wins it's share. It's that, on average, when it wins, it
wins a SMALL pot; but when it loses, it loses a BIG pot.

The most important skill a NL player can have is getting
away from a potentially big loser EARLY. If you can't do
that, then remember to keep the pots small on hands that,
when they lose, lose big.

Regards,
MikeL

Snag · #7 06-26-2005, 09:19 PM

I don't like this at all.

What kind of hand that calls a $50 bet on the flop doesn't have you beat on the turn?

The only thing you have beat here is a flush draw, and a terrible K - which likely isn't calling you on the flop.

You have to wonder what he's smooth calling w/ on the flop when MP1 bets.

I am however not sure how you're supposed to play this turn now that there's $135ish in the pot. You've pretty much committed yourself with that flop raise to calling whatever he does on the turn.

punter11235 · #8 06-27-2005, 02:54 AM

He showed KJ and I took the pot.
Ok, what can he have ?
1)AA - possible, but improbable because there are 2strange plays so far : only call preflop (many ppl do this) and only call 1/2pot bet with flush draw on the board... I dont think many Villains would do this 2plays in this hand
2)set... this is perfectly possible, no board is too scary for Villains at this level when they have set, they always slowplay so this is perfectly possible hand, there are 6possible sets here
3)weaker king : this make sense, most opponents call mediumsize preflop raises with KJ or KQ and then most of them only call on the flop (I didnt see even once sb raising here with TPwK) so there are 16 (KQ or KJ)
4)str8 or flush draw - both are possible but flush draw is more probable, I think most Villains will call with flush draw.

There is one more important thing. Because I choose to take continuation bets and go home by checkraising, pot is large at this moment, my only options are fold or all-in. Checking and calling medium size bet is very bad because Villain would go allin for another medium size bet at the river.

Best wishes!

imported_anacardo · #9 06-27-2005, 03:29 AM

I think: Jesus Christ, put a note on that genius. Way to dig in and look that bastard up! Baaaah!

FreakDaddy · #10 06-27-2005, 04:47 AM

Why the big overbet on the turn? Just for appearance? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think I check/call the turn. You could be splitting this pot, but you could be up against AA. I'm not even sure I add QQ in the mix here, but I guess it's a possibility. I don't not like the hand. I think if you're going to play this hand OOP that the flop check/raise is fine. But the turn is questionable. Really depends a lot on what you think his perception of you is...