A frustrating end to my poker career

[IbrakeFORrivers]

I gotcha. Good clarification.

However, statistical odds can't be denied. If you play right, in the long run, you are DESTINED (simple odds) to make money. You will get bad luck, but that's what bankroll management provides the cushion for. And I think this OP doesn't expect he'll lose. I think that's what his problem is. I can't believe he started giving advice to other posters who were trying to help him...

[sully4321]

i didn't mean session... wrong word choice...

he kept saying that he was beating certain limits, but yet he complains about how much money he is losing. i just meant that i consider "beating" a limit getting at least 10X the average buy-in after playing at those limits for a while (not 10X the buy-in).

and it's not just a rush, i've been winning consistently for about a month.

[Dorez]

Best Thread Ever. No joking. This should be stickied in the beginner forum.

I've been reading through this thread and everytime the original poster said something, I nodded my head. I fully understand and relate to pretty much everything he said. Everything that everyone else has said in this thread is pretty much what I've learned in the past couple months through reading these forums and reading books. After stopping Live 1-2 NL (same as 100NL) in the poker clubs, I'm starting to turn a profit nickel and diming it in the online micro limits. I'm still in the red overall, but it is diminishing. My plan is to build enough of an online bankroll to cash out and play Live again.

My only advice to the OP is that these guys do know what they're talking about. No one is trying to knock you. Yes, some people have been harsh, but look past that and see the real content of their posts. I have learned a lot from them and only until you can accept the fact and be humble enough to take their advice will you become a better player.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
as far as i can tell, i've beat the $50 tables, but i just don't know anymore. The problem i have with multitabling is you can't keep track of who it is you're in a hand with, whether fish or fellow grinder, whether you should respect his bet or come over the top.. etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can 5-table with reads on certain players. It's easy for me to keep track or players and hands too. If it's not so easy for you then you really need to stop multitabling.

[SayGN]

Okay...here goes. You are at a point that MOST poker players come to at some point in their careers. This is the point in time where you know a good deal about the game and know that you are smarter than your opponents. With this knowledge, you feel that you can outplay them by betting just the right amount at the right time to take down the pot. This, inevitebly is going to lead to you losing money because even if you can put them on their exact hand every time,it doesn't mean that they are going to fold it when they should. I can garauntee that you are bluffing too often and overplaying your big starting cards after the flop because you feel that you shouldn't lose with them. This is not restricted to you, it happens to everybody and every good poker player has to come to the realization that bad beats are never going to stop happening and that they will lose many many hands that were a big favorite into the flop. I know that this seems like basic stuff that you know already, afterall...you know the math, you know the game..you are not an idiot. You need to come to grips with the fact that bad [censored] is going to happen to good poker players from time to time all throughout their careers.

I was not a winning NL player for almost a year. I didnt play outside my bankroll and I didnt lose too much money, but I didnt consistently win either. I had a friend who was in the same spot. 6 months later he is making 2grand a week playing 5/10 fixed limit. He's still not a winning NL player, but he sure knows how to win at limit. I always thought limit poker was far too boring and that you couldn't win nearly as much. I'll tell you this though...winning at fixed limit sure as hell beats losing at no limit. I play fixed limit now and I win. I suggest that you give it a try.

Since you are in debt up to your eyeballs with neteller and igmpay and whatever, limit is right up your alley. You consider yourself a man who understands all the math behind the game? Limit is ALL math. The bad beats don't kill you, you get a significant amount of action on your winning hands, its money in the bank for someone who knows his odds. You are underbankrolled for 25NL. However, you're not underbankrolled for .5/1 fixed limit. You will see that 2 or 3 tabling fixed limit is easier than 1 tabling NL because the game is easier. Give it a try, it is fun and it is profitable. Someone with a small bankroll like yours cannot afford the variance and downswings that NL has to offer. There is variance in FL but at .5/1, the next big pot is just around the corner for you to take down. I don't advocate quitting poker because it is obviously something you enjoy doing. It's more enjoyable when you can consistently win, even if the winnings don't come as a huge all pf hand. It's exciting, it's fun, and it is alot more fitting to someone with your bankroll. You can't bet "just the right amount" which means you can't consistently try and bluff people off of their middle pair. However, the upside is that they are going to call you down time after time with their middle pair and that is really good for you because you can pick and choose your spots to take their money with your top pair or your straight or whatever. People give their money away on 2 outters because to call on a prayer is "just one more bet". When you get a bad beat, it's not crippling to your bankroll. Try it out. If your mathematical abilities are as good as you think they are, you should make a killing at the .5/1. Just remember that there is always going to be someone calling you down with bottom pair, so bluffing is not easy and should not be done often.

-read poker books on limit, get poker tracker (super important. send me a PM and i'll tell you how to get a free fully licensed copy).
-As of now, you don't have the bankroll to sustain yourself at NL. I think if you try out fixed limit, you probably wont go back to NL even after your profits have paid off all your debts and you have $2000 extra in your bankroll.
Right now, you are not winning. Everyone on this site has advocated that a change or two needs to be made in order for you to start making a profit. Maybe this is the solution. put $100 into some poker site and play 10,000 hands of .5/1. Try it out and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

my 2 cents.
-rob

[EverettKings]

Your problem is that you care about getting back to even, and making money. You're not willing to play 1c/2c NL until you have enough for a real bankroll at 2c/4c etc. You know (or think) youre good enough for $50 NL games, but you have $100 to your name. You can't play there, no matter how good you think you are.

Fortunately, theres a solution. But it takes more time than you seem to be willing to give here. Put ten dollars on PokerStars. Play 1c/2c NL (sitting for one dollar). Once you have $20, start sitting for $2. Once you have $40, move to 2c/4c. Make sure you have 1000 BBs before you move up, some would say more. If you drop under 500 BBs move down in limits until you have 1k again. NO exceptions. No "one more buyin"s. No "just want to win back a little"s. None.

Post. Post hands where you lose. Post hands where you win. Post hands where you dont have a goddamn clue what to do. Respond to hands.

Finally, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: if you aren't having fun doing this, stop. Get a job. Get an $8/hr as a line cook. Wait tables. That will get you back to even in a lot more sure manner. You want to be happy. If poker is making you miserable, don't play. Sit outside in the nice weather and sell lemonade on the sidewalk if you have to be earning something. But for god's sake dont make yourself miserable.

Best of luck

Kings

[IbrakeFORrivers]

Wow. OP, this is the key. This is what I do. Build build build, learn learn learn, take breaks, take breaks take breaks.

Well worded reply.

[Biggenx]

I've read every post, and yours is about the second dumbest. It's amazing how so many of you high and mighty players feel you must kick me while i'm down. I've been quit humble throughout my posts, so you obviously haven't read many of them.

Like i've said in several post and i'll say it once again, i'm not a great poker player, but i won't sit here and say i'm a sucker.

You say you can tell i'm a poor player by what you've read of me? So give some examples, indulge me, contribute to the thread, if anyone is ranting and running his mouth it's you, pos.

[amoeba]

I think what needs to be said has been said.

some posters are more hostile some are less hostile. This might be due to certain past posters who've posted like this , gotten advice, not taken advice, then coming back and whining. Poker is an egotistical game and you will have to ignore some of the hostility from the replies.

Regardless, the message of starting low and having an adequate bankroll has been consistent.

You've asked for advice, we've given it. The rest is up to you.

[Biggenx]

very true, thanks for you post. as i've said over and over, i know i'm not a great poker player. But from my time playing the $50 tables, it seems clear that i lose less than other players would with a second best hand, and i win more (safely) with the best hand.

I know now the $50 bankroll was obsurd, but to my credit, i played for two months just on what a made with that $50. I would probably still be playing now if i didn't cash out everytime i broke $200. (when i got to $300 i would cash out $100) i did that several times only to run into bad streaks and lost my bankroll. So i figured i would just borrow some money from igm and i'd be back in business no harm done.

I'm not sure i can say i'm addicted to gambling, I really don't like making risky plays, and i don't like a room with tons of action, i like nice quiet rooms that make mistakes when things get heated.

This thread has been really good for me, i tend to get trapped in my own little world when i don't have others to share my thoughts and troubles with, letting me know that bad beats are common and that i'm not crazy.

Wouldn't two months of profitable play mean that i'm at least a semi-decent player? You all must see how hard it is for me to accept your opinion that i have no clue and that i'm in denial about being a sucker or whatever.