issue of under-representing your hand w/KK

molawn2mo · #1 06-24-2005, 10:01 AM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

opp is average tag w/average aggression

i feel like such a putz when this happens. anyone else?

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

sy_or_bust · #2 06-24-2005, 10:17 AM

Not capping KK HU isn't bad, but the rest of your line is way overplayed. If you're comfortable capping the turn against this player, OK, but you cannot 3-bet the river checkraise.

daftdg · #3 06-24-2005, 10:18 AM

Yeah dude, tough spot. I like this play against your average donk to get some bets in on the big streets. Against Average McTagsalot, Im more inclined to avoid the trickiness. In this situation, villain could be isolating with small/medium pocket pair, or playing a premium holding. So a range would probably be, 44-AA and maybe AK. After turn action, I think we can dump AK, and I think the bottom end of his range is important here, will he isolate with 4's 5's or 6's. I think we can give him credit for a set, or a premium overpair. So out of 44,55,66,QQ,KK,AA and maybe JJ, we win with QQ,JJ and split KK. I'm not good enough to play this limit, but are we really thinking busted flush draw on the river? can we check call here? or bet/call?

Edit: Didn't notice he was in the sb, I guess we can add a couple hands to his range pf, but throw them out the window on the turn.

QTip · #4 06-24-2005, 10:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

opp is average tag w/average aggression

i feel like such a putz when this happens. anyone else?

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

You've earned your Masters in Spewing.

stillbr · #5 06-24-2005, 10:21 AM

Cap this sucker preflop. SB is representing a BIG hand himself by 3-beting your non-stealing raise. He will most likely to be playing his hand strongly postflop nomatter what you do here.

99% of the time I'll cap the flop here. And depending on how aggressive the SB is will deturmin how I'll continue to play the turn and river. I'm not getting the river capped unless hes a crazy maniac though.

Would your opponent play 77-QQ this strongly? If so I like it. If he would begin to backdown without a boat, or aces I think Id play the river more passively. That said I'm definatly getting checkraised on the river. I'm betting 100% of the time when its checked to me here.

molawn2mo · #6 06-24-2005, 10:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You've earned your Masters in Spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

be specific

QTip · #7 06-24-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You've earned your Masters in Spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

be specific

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opponent is tight with average aggression and has done nothing but play back at you and you go 4 bets on both of the most expensive streets with 1 pair. The description of the hand I think is explanation enough, right?

crunchy1 · #8 06-24-2005, 11:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You've earned your Masters in Spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously you must be a PhD to be qualified to bestow this distinction. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

MHarris · #9 06-24-2005, 11:07 AM

Given the strength this opponent has shown, I think I'd just call down after he 3-bets the turn. Most "average" TAGs will slow down with QQ-TT after you pop the turn.

molawn2mo · #10 06-24-2005, 11:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You've earned your Masters in Spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

be specific

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opponent is tight with average aggression and has done nothing but play back at you and you go 4 bets on both of the most expensive streets with 1 pair. The description of the hand I think is explanation enough, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect, I am interested in the line that you would take in this hand. preflop-river. I ask, not be argumentative but, rather, to locate the inital error is, indeed, there is deemed to be an error.

I will add to your read, a read that I made (warranted or not)and that is that OPP did not have a set.

Q: appreciate a response and I have a follow up dissertation that I have already prepared but do not want to post until you respond. I am not trying to trap you here but am more interested in an unbiased response from you. I will post my dissertation, in any event, in a couple of minutes.