am i too tight? was this good QQ preflop laydown? (party $20+2)

[mosdef]

i don't buy your argument that aggressive play of QQ-AA should lead to 9th-10th place finishes at least 6% of the time.

at the lower buyins (22 down) i think it's safe to say that at least 2 people have busted out by the start of level 4. so let's look at the probability of busting out in levels 1-3 because of pushing QQ-AA.

you have roughly a 75% chance of not even seeing QQ to AA by the end of level 3. the other 25% of the time, let's say you shove it immediately. IF you get called every time you would lose, i don't know, a third of the time maybe? in that case, you've busted roughly 9% of the time. BUT this assumes that your shove gets called every time, which clearly isn't going to happen, and it ignores the fact that you may get called by someone with a smaller stack and when you lose you don't bust out. even if you get called 1/2 the time, you're still talking about 4-5% bust out rate assuming that you are covered every time you're called.

anyway, i think that you're overestimating the number of times pushing a high pair will knock you out of the tournament.

also, last but not least, it is often correct to fold JJ to a reraise preflop. your post seemed to suggest that you think JJ should be played like QQ-AA.

[Benholio]

I think I might push here, since it is level 3. Level 1 or 2 with the same action, I fold every time.

I don't think a fold is that bad though, absent any reads.

[nokona13]

I like your reasoning jcm, and I agree this is not a typical fish play, but I think I'm going to have to default to the position adanthar advocated above, which is that even with this wierd re-raise that looks alot like a mediocre player trying to trap with AA-KK, it could also be a fish trying to trap with TT, JJ, or AK, figuring UTG to be bullying or something. All I'm saying is, even if MP has KK-AA 50% of the time here, I still think you're getting great odds to more than double up. If MP pushes I think this becomes a ridiculously easy call.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]

anyway, i think that you're overestimating the number of times pushing a high pair will knock you out of the tournament.

also, last but not least, it is often correct to fold JJ to a reraise preflop. your post seemed to suggest that you think JJ should be played like QQ-AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are only looking at pushing...what about calling as
in this QQ hand and the KK hand I posted elsewhere?

I agree with you concerning JJ....I did not mean to imply
that they were in the same class.

I dunno....while posting this I just got all in with QQ on
the first hand of a $22...got shown KK and was out. So
mabey its just been happening to me a little more than the
norm lately.

Suerte,
Jonathan

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but they suck in predictable ways. Limping too much. Going all-in with top pair, poor kicker. Calling draws when they don't have the odds. I've never, to my memory, seen a fish make this kind of play with a hand that is dominated by QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. IMO, the chances that this is even AK is remote. Alot of the 22s suck, but this has all the feel of AA or KK. As jcm4ccc wrote, they suck in ways other than this. If the re-raiser had pushed, I'd lean more toward AK. Unless this guy is a complete fool, this is aces or kings (more likely aces).

Edit: And now that I've read all the responses, I agree with jcm4ccc even more. I think that people are missing the point: fish push and call all-ins with all kinds of junk, but the re-raise on this hand does not fall into this category at all. AK does not make this play and neither does a pair under queens. What does that leave for the re-raiser to have? And just so you know, this post is coming from someone who can only remember folding queens pre-flop twice in the last year.