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#11
06-22-2005, 10:47 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
say blinds are 50-100. if you complete-and-steal, you risk 50 and then 120 or so. if you raise, you're going to have to make it more like 300, risking 250.
the complete-and-steal is also great for those times when you (or the BB) does not have enough chips for you to raise garbage and then fold. it also doesn't "count" as one of your open-raises in terms of making people want to play back at you. this is one of the many times i'm happy to have PT/playerview - if the BB has a high PFR then i'll raise or fold my garbage hands. 
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#12
06-22-2005, 10:56 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
[ QUOTE ]
As far as limping in the small blind, I think its one of the best things you can do. [/ QUOTE ] Many times in the BB I will re-raise with air if it's just the SB limping into me. As the BB, it's my pot to defend, and if you want to see the flop, and think you're going to get in cheaply by limping, think again. Granted I don't do this all the time, but a majority of the time I will as many players can't/won't limp in with a big hand. TT
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#13
06-22-2005, 11:03 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
I usually raise from the BB if the SB completes. A lot of times it is a value raise, since I assume the SB has junk. If either player is reasonably short stacked, I will push.
Yeh, the SB could trap with a big hand, but the SB is only going to have a pair TT or higher 2% of the time.
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#14
06-22-2005, 11:04 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
[ QUOTE ]
Many times in the BB I will re-raise with air if it's just the SB limping into me [/ QUOTE ] i think the most obviously needed gimmick account is the "the first raise is not a reraise" guy.
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#15
06-22-2005, 11:18 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
My only problem with your line is the following: First, a tricky and aggressive BB will often raise you and you have to fold. Second, if you complete sometimes planning to steal on the flop, you can't do it with only junk - you must also limp at times with big hands, which I hate to do. Thirdly, at the low buy-in tourneys I find that many players on the BB will be reluctant to play back at you preflop, but may call or raise you on the flop with less reluctance if they either get ANY piece of the flop or to simply keep you honest. I think the combination of those three factors more than makes up for the 300 vs. 170 line that you have in your post.
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#16
06-22-2005, 11:32 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
[ QUOTE ] First, a tricky and aggressive BB will often raise you and you have to fold [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] this is one of the many times i'm happy to have PT/playerview - if the BB has a high PFR then i'll raise or fold my garbage hands. [/ QUOTE ] i try to avoid doing it against tricky/aggro guys. [ QUOTE ] Second, if you complete sometimes planning to steal on the flop, you can't do it with only junk - you must also limp at times with big hands, [/ QUOTE ] in theory, that's true. but in order for anyone to use this info against me, they'd have to know "wow, i've seen him with big hands in the SB many times, and he always open-raises." i'm not going to play that many hands against someone. and i will occasionally limp-reraise from the SB against a very aggro BB if the stacks are fairly short. [ QUOTE ] but may call or raise you on the flop with less reluctance if they either get ANY piece of the flop or to simply keep you honest [/ QUOTE ] if they're doing it to keep me honest, more power to 'em, they get my one bet on the flop (unless i actually hit). if they're only playing when the catch a piece, they're going to fold ~2/3 of the time, which (i think) makes it profitable to always complete-and-steal rather than fold. well, they might raise pre-flop, and i haven't done the math, but you get the idea.
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#17
06-22-2005, 11:33 AM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
Gee, I'm afraid of your raise.
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#18
06-22-2005, 12:13 PM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
First, there are rarely more than 2-3 x in a MTT where it is folded to you and same BB. So long term reads are tough to get. The raise from the BB, when the SB completes (especially a min-raise whe the blinds are high) is so common that is is laughable. Im not afraid of a raise from the BB, unless it is a push. If he wants to push to win my 1BB, have fun. I do limp enough with very good hands where in the long run this is a very bad idea. Most players play so horrendously post flop in these situations, that a good player can make more with less risk by limping frequently.
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#19
06-22-2005, 01:17 PM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
About 60-70% of the time a raise from the BB when the SB just completes will win the hand PF. Whether you're scared of it or not is of no consequence. If you are going to limp in with junk just to see the flop, then fold to a raise from the BB, what's the point in limping in the first place. Either raise from the SB to put the BB to the decision or fold. Limping with a good hand is one thing if you expect the BB to raise whenever you limp, but why limp with junk and bleed off chips to a raise/fold?
TT
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#20
06-22-2005, 01:22 PM
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Re: Never Limp from the SB?
[ QUOTE ]
If he wants to push to win my 1BB, have fun. I do limp enough with very good hands where in the long run this is a very bad idea. [/ QUOTE ] It's stealing 2xBB, with ante atleast 3xBB. With folding equity it's generally worth my pushing for 12xBB. Even if I get called, I have decent pot odds. How many big hands are you going to limp with from the SB? Limping and stealing may work against certain players who will not play aggressively preflop or postflop, but in general I don't like it.
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