Is there a "Flop and Beyond Plays" chart somewhere?

[12AX7]

Hi Everyone,
I was up last night with a notebook, breaking down various situations I'd expect to come up on the flop and trying to decide what appropriate plays might be.

For example, Two Pairs. One case might be that I have middle pocket pairs and a larger pair is in the flop. Another might be that I have 67 and the flop is 67A or 672... different situations.

I suspect I can enumerate a lot of cases or start gathering up hand histories (and go back and read lots about flop play) and get together a strategy for each subcase vis-a-vis players and table conditions.

But if someone already has it started, might be nice to take a look and see how it looks, what an effective format is etc.

[waffle]

This is poker, not blackjack.

[oreogod]

Its called a poker book.

[splashpot]

What you're suggesting is a collection of every possible hand in every possible situation. If you actually did compile such a collection, it would be so enormous and boring that no one would read it. To show how big it would be, you could probably write an entire book in this format on top pair alone.

[matt42s]

if you're serious, understand that its a huge task and still want a starting point, download the demo of Wilson's Turbo Texas Holdem and look through the strategy editor. Its basically a comprehensive listing of "groups of situations".

[tippy]

You would get more out of your time and effort if instead you created a list of underlying theories or things you should consider when making your flop decision. It seems that most people have learning backwards, they start with specific examples/hands rather than learning the underlying concepts first. It is much easier if you learn the underlying concepts and then apply them to your various hand examples.

[Rev. Good Will]

No, but some players have lines, a sort of a home made playbook they refer back to for similar situations

[12AX7]

[ QUOTE ]
This is poker, not blackjack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Waffle,
Yeah, I know and agree. But there are quite a few rules of thumb for various common situations. Most poker books I've owned over the years have sections on post flop play. Often broken down into things like, "Flush Draws" etc.

Anyway, most of my poker books were tossed when I had to move for a job one time rather fast. So anything that didn't fit in the car, didn't go! So I'm slowly but surely starting over. Actually just continuing starting for the first time with HE as when I first learned stud was what I played.

As one poster mentioned, a personal playbook seems like a good idea. Had one for stud years ago. Lost it in a disk crash. (No backups. DOH!)

Anyway. I hear where you are coming from. And if you extended it fully, even pre-flop charts aren't the be all, end all, for the same reasons. But they are quite often used to get started.

Same idea here. Get all the known "do's, don't and touchy situations" that are already widely known down pat... why sit here and re-invent the wheel?

:-)

[12AX7]

[ QUOTE ]
What you're suggesting is a collection of every possible hand in every possible situation. If you actually did compile such a collection, it would be so enormous and boring that no one would read it. To show how big it would be, you could probably write an entire book in this format on top pair alone.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hi Splashpot, well... yes and no.

For example I've read repeatedly that a flush draw is largely dead against a pair on board.

Anyway, I've been running sims and whatnot to get an idea how the numbers look. I have to believe, as another poster is saying... that if we had all the table you allude to, that we could find patterns to recall and work by.

For instance, though poker is not blackjack, when you look at a blackjack basic strategy card... first thing you do is find ways to describe what you see to simplify the memory part...

For example, "I need to have 17 or better to stop, against dealer 7 or better"... rather than remembering each cell discretely.

Granted, with poker, there's going to be way, way more gray because your opponents are not locked into a strategy as are Blackjack dealers.

:-)

[TheShootah]

[ QUOTE ]

For example I've read repeatedly that a flush draw is largely dead against a pair on board.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a perfect example of why a playbook is a bad idea. If you just had this in your book - Fold flush draws when the board pairs, you would be way off. First off, it depends on how big the pot is. Second, who the player is- if he is a maniac, he has a bigger distribution of hands, there is a better chance he didn't hit. Third, position, how many people are in the pot, what the actual pair is. Would you fold a flush draw given the correct odds even when the board was 332, heads up, against a maniac? This playbook is a terrible idea. Read SSHE, read HEFAP, and read TOP. No playbook!